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More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#411

Post by noch »

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #407
quesomaster9000 wrote: post #397

The Kenyan moderators' PTSD reveals the fundamental paradox of content moderation: we've created an enterprise-grade trauma processing system that requires concentrated psychological harm to function, then act surprised when it causes trauma. The knee-jerk reaction of suggesting AI as the solution is, IMO, just wishful thinking - it's trying to technologically optimize away the inherent contradiction of bureaucratize…

Any idea what our next steps are? It seems like we stop the experiment of mass communication, try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism (presently executed by human), or throw open the flood gates to all manner of trauma inducing content and let the viewer beware.

> Any idea what our next steps are? [..] try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism [..]

It should cost some amount of money to post anything online on any social media platform: pay to post a tweet, article, image, comment, message, reply.

(Incidentally, crypto social networks have this by default simply due to constraints in how blockchains work.)

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#412

Post by smokel »

noch wrote: post #411
gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea what our next steps are? It seems like we stop the experiment of mass communication, try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism (presently executed by human), or throw open the flood gates to all manner of trauma inducing content and let the viewer beware.

> Any idea what our next steps are? [..] try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism [..] It should cost some amount of money to post anything online on any social media platform: pay to post a tweet, article, image, comment, message, reply. (Incidentally, crypto social networks have this by default simply due to constraints in how blockchains work.)

How will this help?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#413

Post by bdangubic »

noch wrote: post #411
gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea what our next steps are? It seems like we stop the experiment of mass communication, try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism (presently executed by human), or throw open the flood gates to all manner of trauma inducing content and let the viewer beware.

> Any idea what our next steps are? [..] try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism [..] It should cost some amount of money to post anything online on any social media platform: pay to post a tweet, article, image, comment, message, reply. (Incidentally, crypto social networks have this by default simply due to constraints in how blockchains work.)

assumption here is the people posting vile shit are also broke&homeless?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#414

Post by makeitdouble »

quesomaster9000 wrote: post #397

The Kenyan moderators' PTSD reveals the fundamental paradox of content moderation: we've created an enterprise-grade trauma processing system that requires concentrated psychological harm to function, then act surprised when it causes trauma. The knee-jerk reaction of suggesting AI as the solution is, IMO, just wishful thinking - it's trying to technologically optimize away the inherent contradiction of bureaucratize…

Reducing the sheer volume is still a critically important step.

You're right that fundamentally there's an imbalance between the absolute mass of people producing the garbage, and the few moderators dealing with it. But we also don't have an option to just cut everyone's internet.

Designing platforms and business models that inherently produce less of the nasty stuff could help a lot. But even if/when we get there, we'll need automated mechanisms to ask people if they really want to be jerks, absolutely need to send their dick picks, or let people deal with sheer crime pics without having to look at them more than two seconds.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#415

Post by Eisenstein »

slothtrop wrote: post #296
Eisenstein wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I already addressed this and you're talking over it. You didn't address it, you handwaved it. > Why are you making the assumption that AI == no appeal and zero staff? I explicitly stated the reason -- it is cheaper and it will work for the majority of instances while the edge cases won't result in losing a large enough user base that it would matter to them. I am not making assumptions. Google notoriously operates…

> I am not making assumptions. Google notoriously operates in this fashion -- for instance unless you are a very popular creator, youtube functions like that. Their copyright takedown system has been around for many years and wasn't contingent on AI. It's a "take-down now, ask questions later" policy to please the RIAA and other lobby groups. Illegal/abuse material doesn't profit big business, their interest is in no…

> Their copyright takedown system has been around for many years and wasn't contingent on AI.

So what? It could rely on tea leaves and leprechauns, it illustrates that whatever automation works will be relied on at the expense of any human staff or process

> it 99% likely violates their terms of use, in which case there's nothing to say.

Isn't that 1% the edge cases I am specifically mentioning are important and won't get addressed?

> doesn't mean they'll be employed if customers dislike it.

The customers on ad supported internet platforms are the advertisers and they are fine with it.

> You're jumping to conclusions. That is the entire point of my response.

Conclusions based on solid reason and evidenced by past events.

> AI isn't there yet, notwithstanding, if they did a good job 98% of the time then who cares? No one.

Until you realize that 2% of 2.89billion monthly users is 57,800,000.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#416

Post by m2024 »

bdangubic wrote: post #413
noch wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any idea what our next steps are? [..] try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism [..] It should cost some amount of money to post anything online on any social media platform: pay to post a tweet, article, image, comment, message, reply. (Incidentally, crypto social networks have this by default simply due to constraints in how blockchains work.)

assumption here is the people posting vile shit are also broke&homeless?

[dead]

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#417

Post by itake »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #365
itake wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are also not in pain. My understanding is that during surgery, your body is most definitely in pain. Your body still reacts as it would to any damage, but anesthetics block the pain signals from reaching the brain.

But there is a difference between someone making an effort healing someone else vs content with implications that something really disturbing happened that makes you lose faith in humanity.

Should the Uvalde police sue the school for putting them through that trauma?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#418

Post by [deleted] »

sabbaticaldev wrote: post #270
Eisenstein wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what people are seeing in my questions, but apparently they don't like answering them, because no one has. I'm trying to understand what people mean by 'detachment from reality' and how such a thing is related to 'understanding of mortality', and how a deeper understanding of mortality and acceptance of death would manifest in ways that can be seen. If 'acceptance of death' does not actually mean that th…

[dead]

[deleted]

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#419

Post by gadflyinyoureye »

noch wrote: post #411
gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea what our next steps are? It seems like we stop the experiment of mass communication, try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism (presently executed by human), or throw open the flood gates to all manner of trauma inducing content and let the viewer beware.

> Any idea what our next steps are? [..] try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism [..] It should cost some amount of money to post anything online on any social media platform: pay to post a tweet, article, image, comment, message, reply. (Incidentally, crypto social networks have this by default simply due to constraints in how blockchains work.)

But this would necessarily block out the poorest voices. While one might say that it is fine to block neonazi red necks, there are other poor people out their voicing valid claims.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#420

Post by Eisenstein »

kenjackson wrote: post #273
Eisenstein wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cow walks into the kitchen, it gets a captive bolt shoved into its brain with a person holding a compressed air tank. Its hide is ripped off and it is cut into two pieces with all of its guts on the ground and the flesh and bones now hang as slabs. I am asserting that you could do all of that in front of a random assortment of modern Americans, and then cut steaks off of it and grill them and serve them to half of…

You’re just going down the list of things that sound disgusting. The second sounds worse than the first but both sound horrible.

Sorry I got a bit too involved in the discussion and just should have let it go a long time ago.
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