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FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

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Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#411

Post by presentation »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #162
belfalas wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the service is amazing, and they won't accept tips. If you leave money on the table, they will chase after you, to give it back. I visited Japan some years back and loved this aspect of the culture as well. An Australian ski guide (this was a winter visit) explained it like so: "the Japanese attitude is to want to do a good job by default. Tipping implies that a good job is only done because of pay. The Japan…

That's fantasy. The same thing is true in China. All it means is that the local culture doesn't tip.

Japan does have a well known “customer is god” cultural background; whether or not tipping has anything to do with that is here or there, though it is the expectation that if someone does a job, it is expected not to be half assed.

One of the big differences between here in Japan and other parts of the world I’ve visited and lived in, is the near absence of service staff who actively make a point of looking like they hate their life and treat you like crap, though this is slowly changing here too.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#412

Post by carlosjobim »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #349
carlosjobim wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, what about art? Should we punish and limit the most successful artists to give other people a chance?

No, because see above.

Art affects people's real life profoundly. For example TV shows alter the behaviour of entire generations of people.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#413

Post by carlosjobim »

acdha wrote: post #275
carlosjobim wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free competition should mean that you don't get punished for winning. There is no sport that punishes a competitor who is constantly winning, as long as they are competing fairly. Imagine Schwarzenegger being banned from Mr Olympia or Gretzky being banned for life from minor league ice hockey. So that the other competitors are given a fair chance of winning. But every sport punishes competitors who are cheating or be…

> But hackers and the EU and US bureaucrats think that being a leader in a market has to be punished for being a "monopoly". This is a provocative claim. Do you have any examples?

It is repeated on the level of gospel here on HN that Apple is "a monopoly", and nobody even flinches at the absurdity of that claim.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#414

Post by carlosjobim »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #354
carlosjobim wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free competition should mean that you don't get punished for winning. There is no sport that punishes a competitor who is constantly winning, as long as they are competing fairly. Imagine Schwarzenegger being banned from Mr Olympia or Gretzky being banned for life from minor league ice hockey. So that the other competitors are given a fair chance of winning. But every sport punishes competitors who are cheating or be…

> There is no sport that punishes a competitor who is constantly winning, as long as they are competing fairly. Constantly winning in a competitive environment with no runaway feedback loops[0] is evidence of cheating. See also, casinos: the "legitimate" ones don't rig the game - they know the odds; they expect you to win something here and then, but if they see you winning consistently, they'll rightfully assume you…

> Constantly winning in a competitive environment with no runaway feedback loops[0] is evidence of cheating.

Right. How did Usain Bolt cheat? How did Michael Phelps cheat? How did ABBA cheat?

> any good profit-seeking actor will aim at becoming a monopolist in their market segment

Of course. And then hackers redefine the market segment to encompass that businesses product and ta-da, you have a monopoly. Like Apple.

If we're talking about real monopolies, then I couldn't agree more. But what hackers and the EU are doing is redefining monopoly in a dishonest way because they have personal grudges against a company.

> The donkey needs to believe they can win, so it keeps running, but it also can never be allowed to actually get their prize, because then it'll stop.

Here's something to blow your mind: The donkey enjoys running. Or let's take a real life example: sled dogs. They love pulling the sled. Entrepreneurs love working and love competing. Those who don't love it usually pull out of the game with their profits way before they have even national impact.

This is a huge divide in attitude I've seen everywhere in the world in my life. You have category X of people who see all kind of work as an immense suffering. They complain endlessly, do the minimum effort, and never get anywhere. And you have category Y of people who love working, because it's doing something productive and learning. That doesn't mean that they're satisfied with being abused wage slaves. Rather it is the first category who never advances in life, because they think it's all a scam. People in the second category also fail a lot because they take chances. But they usually get up again.

> Who's turning a blind eye to it? Fraud and scams are the base state of the market; it's what it decays to if left to its own devices. Regulations are there to counteract this tendency.

All governments and law enforcement seem to be turning a blind eye to it. About 50% of advertisements on Facebook and Instagram are outright scams, ie physical products from brand names that are advertised at bargain prices and if you "buy" it you will not get delivery because it is an outright scam. US and EU governments should fine Meta billions of dollars for having their main source of income from organized crime and fraud. But they are focused on completely irrelevant crap like app stores. Talk about sieving mosquitoes and swallowing camels.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#415

Post by Sammi »

The fact that sensible and fair rules like this that favor the consumer don't get anywhere in the usa is proof of the regulatory capture by the corporate elite. The us isn't a democracy, because it isn't ruled by the people, it is ruled by the corporation and rich.

Americans keep voting for rich assholes who oppress them while telling them they are giving them freedom.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#416

Post by dotancohen »

TylerE wrote: post #331
dotancohen wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a law needed to address this? Isn't the market supposed to adjust for companies like this?

We have hundreds of years of examples of the blessed free market failing to do exactly that. If the free market had it's way we'd still be under the yoke of Standard Oil and Ma Bell. One key element of a free market is the "well informed consumer". How is the consumer supposed to be informed about what new cutting edge chemicals are toxic, for instance?

For the hundreds of years of examples, we have not had an interconnected network with information available to almost every human on the planet.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#417

Post by danaris »

spiderice wrote: post #272
danaris wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can probably avoid this—or, rather, cover your ass legally—by doing something like sending them a letter registered mail informing them that you are cancelling and will be blocking further payments. It's far from a good solution, but it should at least put you in a better position vis-a-vis the courts if it comes to that.

Suddenly waiting on the phone for 45 minutes doesn't sound so bad, unless proving a point is your main goal.

For some people, being on the phone for 45 minutes (and what guarantee is there that you'd actually get to talk to them after 45 minutes?) during business hours is simply not an option. They would have to take time off from work, which a) might not be allowed, and b) if allowed would certainly reduce their pay.

Furthermore, there's an entire category of people for whom "talk on the phone" is not an option, period. If they wanted to cancel by the approved method, they'd not only need to take that time themselves, they'd need someone else willing to take that time with them.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#418

Post by ensignavenger »

andreareina wrote: post #360
ensignavenger wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has the exact same sales tax rate(s) across the entire country, and it rarely changes. In the US, we have thousands of different rates and they change multiple times per year. Also, while it is the norm in Japan to include the tax, there are some exceptions. (Japan has 2 rates, 8% for certain items like food, and 10% for everything else).

Brick and mortar stores know exactly how much tax they have to pay, yet they don't show an all-inclusive price. It's clearly not a case of online retailers just not showing the tax because it's difficult. If they wanted to they could let you give your post code before checking out, and query the same database to show the post-tax price for everything.

Really, you expect them to go through every item in the store, multiple times per year, and update the price tags?

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#419

Post by naijaboiler »

1shooner wrote: post #394
jimmaswell wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a move afoot to eliminate all regulations unless they've been specifically passed by Congress. Which is basically incapable of passing anything. (At least some of) the agencies brought this on themselves with their abuse of the goodwill/benefit of the doubt previously afforded to them. Most flagrant has been the ATF, for one example constantly redefining machine guns or pistol braces, turning millions of c…

This is coming into my work life with web accessibility: The DoJ published a rulemaking in April that filled the many, many gaps in the existing law that determines if the government is violating the ADA when creating websites, etc. What came before this was at least 15 years of tort action, a patchwork of civil rulings across a wide variety of jurisdictions, and generally, confusion and ambiguity. Not the stuff of e…

yeah because Congress now have to become experts at everything: from definition of machine guns, to ADA guidelines. Afterall, if Congress didn't specifically pass the law to the detail, it doesn't exist.

The sheer stupidity of that argument is mind-blowing. When you have a government agency with dedicated technical resources, but you will rather a bunch of couple hundred of people with different backgrounds make specific rules about everything. That's just madness

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#420

Post by naijaboiler »

sudoshred wrote: post #179
breadwinner wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then that becomes unpaid bills and they send you to collections.

You can dispute debt in collections by requesting proof of the debt. The consumer protections in that area (debt collections) are quite a bit more developed than any consumer protections about intentional procedural inefficiency when cancelling service.

you will end up with damaged credit. The only negative on my credit report is from a verizon phone I bought from a verizon store (actually ended up not being Verizon owned store,) which i returned within the 7 days return fee, even paid re-stocking fee. But which the store credits me for having returned it later than I did, which allowed Verizon charged me 1 month service fee, which I never got a bill or email even though verizon had both, until it showed up on credit as collection. Nothing I did could get it off.
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