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Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

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Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#411

Post by chgs »

celestialcheese wrote: post #394
chgs wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I can spend 100k on a tractor cause 100t of pollution or 200k on a tractor causing 50t of pollution I will obviously choose the firmer tractor as the rest of the world pays the price of the extra 50t of pollution. If the externalities of that carbon generation are priced in I end up paying more for the polluting tractor so I choose the less polluting tractor and make more money.

For farmers today, the choice is more stark. I can only speak to small and medium farms, but if we're talking large horsepower cultivators / row farming, It's really a choice between keep my old pre-emissions diesel/buy a pre-2006 used tractor from auctions/marketplace for 50k, or double down and lease a 250k-400k new mid-size tractor. You make it seem like many farmers have choices, but old "dirty" tractors are the…

So they externalise their costs and get other people to pay?

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#412

Post by stainablesteel »

BurningFrog wrote: post #384
manvillej wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very conflicted on a carbon tax for the agriculture industry. It is going to sidle a cost to an industry of razor thin margins. The transition from regenerative agriculture is expensive & rising food costs has a destabilizing effect. There need to be changes, but I am not convinced that this will have the desired effects. Its quite possible this leads to a net conversion of farmland to residential or commercial…

Carbon taxes are by far the most effective way to get down CO₂ emissions. But I'm doubtful that implementing them only for one industry in one small country is very helpful.

I disagree, carbon taxes seem to be the best way to ensure your country starts to outsource all of it's carbon producing activity to less developed countries who do a worse job containing their emissions. This has been happening in europe for quite some time with the manufacturing of their wind turbines iirc. It's a super carbon heavy emission to produce them, so the europeans have them made elsewhere to make it look like their emissions are super low, which is essentially a lie for politicians to sell environment-crazed voters.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#413

Post by stainablesteel »

delusional wrote: post #361
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So effectively offshoring carbon production to places that don’t care?

No. The document spells out that denmark intends to remain a "strong" producer of agricultural products by increasing the yield from other, less ecologically damaging, farming areas. You should read the introduction.

They write these things all the time while continually outsourcing their carbon emissions to other countries. Follow the supply chains.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#414

Post by sabbaticaldev »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #248
Epa095 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could food security in case of another global crisis be a good enough reason? I don't know anything about the British situation AT ALL, but I think many in Europe think slightly different about the market-based solution when it comes to both food, medicines, and other essentials after corona. It turns out that when shit hits the fan, countries need to handle the basic needs of their population themselves.

People don't need lamb in an emergency.

governments need it to stay in power

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#415

Post by braincat31415 »

RayVR wrote: post #227
chaostheory wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the masses interpret these changes as “let them eat cake” given that inflation is already hammering the middle and lower classes.

in Denmark, inflation is currently running at a 1.6% annualized rate, as of the most recent reading[0]. This is the full basket inflation rate, including volatile categories (food and energy). Core inflation is even lower, with the latest reading at 1.3% (annualized) in October 2024. Food inflation is, of course, volatile. It currently sits at a moderately elevated level of 3.9% (October 2024, annualized). Food price…

1.6% is the change in the CPI. The actual inflation is about 8%. There was a huge change in the CPI in 2022 or 2023, mostly attributed to sharply higher cost of energy.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#416

Post by sabbaticaldev »

Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #223
whatwhaaaaat wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me get this right. To save the planet Denmark wants to stop producing food locally and instead import more? So those pig farts gotta go but the bunker fuel used to ship grain from a slash and burn rainforest farm in Brazil is a-ok. Utterly brain dead. So much so that you know someone’s getting paid from these decisions.

you got it.. and grain is not the only thing we get shipped from Brazil.. to look green, we've replaced most our coal burning for energy with bio fuels, essentially wood and that gets shipped in from Brazil as well.. very green.. because fuck nuclear, because of.. checks notes.. reasons

and Brazil does that while keeping 60% of its territory as native forests.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#417

Post by xkbarkar »

The greyed out downvoted comments in this thread makes it look like that dreaded echo chamber that must not be named here.

HN threads are usually much better quality than this ( anyone with opposed ideas are downvoted to oblivion ).

Rubbish thread. Nothing to learn here.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#418

Post by braincat31415 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #356
shiroiushi wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just in terms of land-use, livestock is several times less efficient than other kinds of agriculture for the same food output. This assumes that the land is equally usable for both activities. Many times, it isn't: a lot of land that's good enough for grazing cows doesn't have enough water available for growing plants that people want to (or can) eat. People can't eat grass. This probably isn't an issue in Denmark,…

Cows are extremely inefficient (2% conversion) at converting calories to meat, so putting cows on that land is also an inefficient use of that land. And land with bad yield for crops also has bad yield for cows and the grass they eat and the water they need. I don't see the proposition being made in these claims. Cows are so inefficient that we don't need to use marginal land at all to grow food. The majority of arab…

You do it then. I like my beef and milk, and I don't care if they use up the land or produce methane.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#419

Post by braincat31415 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #359
bluefirebrand wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also ignores that animals produce the manure that is used to fertilize soil to grow crops in.

We use manure because it's coming out of the gills of the animal ag industry, not because it's necessary to enrich crop soil. Just because plastic bags are ubiquitous doesn't mean it's the only nor best way to carry items around, nor that we'd lose the ability to transport goods if they were phased out, nor that they don't come at a cost despite perceiving them as free.

Done any farming lately? You would not get enough yield to feed people without fertilizer. Of course it can be produced from a source different from manure. Nitrogen-based fertilizer is produced from cheap natural gas... oh wait... that is gone,too.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#420

Post by option »

tayistay wrote: post #377
option wrote: post #357

I am amazed by the idea (also popular among many in California) that one can “outsource” climate change to poor, developing countries by not producing for yourself

Google says: “California is the largest agricultural exporter in the United States”

California imports about 30% of its energy from other states. [1]

More importantly, most of the gas Californias consume is imported as well.

I guess its OK to drill and build coal electric plants as well as it is elsewhere. /s

[1] https://www.perplexity.ai/search/how-much-energy-california-...

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