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Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

reuters.com

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Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#411

Post by maronato »

Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

"Terrorism" is one of the most useful terms for dehumanizing and delegitimizing a group's actions. It's only a useful term insofar as it's applied only to the enemy.

Mental gymnastics will be in full force here and in the media/politics to recategorize it.

I have no doubt a headline saying "Israeli politicians' hand-held radios explode, killing three, one day after pager blasts" would receive very different responses in this thread.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#412

Post by seydor »

yuvalr1 wrote: post #401
seydor wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is considered terrorism. Whoever did it, nobody would say that this attack makes military sense, lebanon is not at war, and civilians have died. But since IDF didn't do it, we ll never know who the terrorists are.

Unfortunately, you are seriously uninformed. Israel and Hezbolla are in active war for more than 11 months now. On a side note, I think people should strive to be more humble when they talk about issues they don't understand, or understand very little.

even though incidents happened on both sides, neither side has started an 'active war' against the other. plus, we don't know who tampered with those devices

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#413

Post by cjbprime »

jnwatson wrote: post #371
JohnMakin wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As attacks go, this is far more targeted than most dropped bombs. The purpose is to disable the communication infrastructure. That's a valid military target. To be clear, I'm not saying this is a good thing. It does seem to fit within the rules of war though.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that the purpose was to disable those electronic devices. The devices were compromised and modified to include explosives. They could have been modified with a remote kill-switch that destroyed the device without causing a large explosion. The purpose of the explosion was to injure humans, not to make devices inoperable.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#414

Post by segasaturn »

omginternets wrote: post #402
segasaturn wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about LGBT people, but I do know the IDF "deliberately targets non-combattantts with shocking levels of violence". If these designations are so fair and neutral and free of politics then they should be a designated terrorist group too shouldn't they?

Hard disagree. The IDF kills civilians, yes, but I am not aware of a deliberate effort to target civilians. The civilian deaths are overwhelmingly a consequence of Hamas blending in with the population and conducting operations where any retaliation puts civilians at risk. There is a meaningful difference between collateral death and terrorism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_mass_graves

> According to paramedics and rescue teams involved in the recovery of the bodies, some bodies were found with hands tied, indicating possible execution. Other victims were found with bullet marks on their heads, raising suspicions of summary executions. There are also reports of torture marks on the bodies.[34][35]

>According to Palestinian government-run news agency Wafa, some bodies were found suspicious of organ theft with their stomachs open and stitched up, contrary to the usual wound closure techniques in the Gaza Strip. The mutilated body of a little girl wearing a surgical gown was also found, prompting suspicions that she had been buried alive.[34]

This does not sound like "collateral damage".

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#415

Post by morkalork »

Modified3019 wrote: post #81
Qem wrote: post #28

The original pager attack was triggered in the anniversary of World War II hero Folke Bernadotte assassination by Zionists, on September 17. See https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-... I wonder if this was meaningful choice, or just a coincidence.

Most likely coincidence. From what I’ve read, Israel had to pull the trigger on the pagers early because some people (whom they were monitoring) had gotten suspicious that something was up.

I wonder what tipped them off? The battery wasn't lasting as long? One accidentally went off early and they were investigating? A leak?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#416

Post by lukan »

onemoresoop wrote: post #369
atemerev wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preparation. Surprise attacks work… once. Then, you have to wait for a few years when the enemy side lowers their readiness again.

It seems like these attacks happened multiple times in succession, a day apart from eachother. Yesterday pagers exploded, today walkie takies and solar panels. What's next to come?

"solar panels"

That is news to me. Who reported so?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#417

Post by minkles »

lupusreal wrote: post #396
minkles wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it stops a third wrong.

It absolutely does not. The violence will continue with both sides dishing it out and feeling completely justified in doing so because of what was previously done to them.

So what's your solution then?

Incidentally it does work. It's just horrible. Nagasaki / Hiroshima are a fine example of forced capitulation. Now I'm not suggesting nuking anyone but the best way this ends, with the lowest future body count is someone wins decisively at this point.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#419

Post by borski »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #282
ivan_gammel wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t look very surgical to me given the civilian casualties and general disregard of what can happen to innocent people. If anything this looks more like a state-sponsored terrorist attack than covert ops with collateral damage.

And very possibly in violation of the Geneva Convention's prohibition of "indiscriminate" attacks: Rule 12. Indiscriminate attacks are those: (a) which are not directed at a specific military objective; (b) which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or (c) which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by internation…

(a) Disrupt Hezbollah’s communications network and take out operatives.

(b) The pagers were specifically distributed to Hezbollah operatives, not civilians. It targeted, by definition, the owners of those pagers, supporting the military objective.

(c) It was limited, by definition. This contained tiny amount of explosives, focused very much on targeting the owner of the device, not “civilians or civilian objects without distinction” (from military objectives).

No violation here.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#420

Post by bawolff »

rowanseymour wrote: post #384
stetrain wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of terrorism is controversial and political, so there isn't a hard answer. But I think a general distinction is the targeting of combatants vs civilians. There is a difference between infiltrating military or para-military organizations or operations and intentionally targeting mass casualties of civilians for attention.

Hezbollah is the government in southern Lebanon so when you throw around "combatant" you're including a lot of civil servants, doctors, teachers etc.

Were those people targeted or only the hezbollah military wing? So far it seems like there isn't much specific info out there on this point.
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