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Artificial intelligence is losing hype

economist.com

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Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#411

Post by roywiggins »

Calavar wrote: post #391
aschobel wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give it another shot but with Claude Sonnet 3.5. It’s my daily driver for coding tasks. It seems especially strong with Python but a bit medium with Swift.

I just signed up for the free version. Claude Sonnet does properly use malloc/free to manage the buffer where GPT-4o screws up (Yay!) It manages to gets through the whole process of initializing a graphics device and grabbing a queue from the device. It took some questionable shortcuts to get there (and didn't leave any comments explaining those shortcuts and the problems they could cause down the road), but fine, th…

I've had some moderate success asking Claude to "translate" smallish pieces of code from, eg, C++ to Python. One simple C++ file parser it managed to translate basically 100% right on one try. I wouldn't particularly trust the output- well, not until I run it through tests- but for quick "could this possibly work, what does the performance look like, what might this code look like" exploratory stuff it's been very useful, especially for code that you are likely to throw away anyway.

One example that I am still using: I wanted to generate a random DICOM file with specific types of garbage in it to use as input for some unit tests, and Claude was able to generate some Python that grabs some random DICOM tags and shoves vaguely plausible garbage data into them, such that it is a valid but nonsensical DICOM dataset. This is not hard, but it's a lot faster to ask Claude to do it.

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#412

Post by bamboozled »

slidehero wrote: post #315
bamboozled wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have teachers in my family, their lives have been basically ruined by people using ChatGPT-4 to cheat on their assignments. They spend their weekend trying to workout if someone has "actually written" this or not. So sorry, we're back to spam generator. Even if it's "good spam".

>their lives have been basically ruined a bit dramatic. there has to be an adjustment of teaching/assessing, but nothing that would "ruin" anyone's life. >So sorry, we're back to spam generator. Even if it's "good spam". is it spam if it's useful and solves a problem? I don't agree it fits the definition any more. Teachers are under immense pressure, GPT allows a teacher to generate extension questions for gifted stu…

is it spam if it's useful and solves a problem? I don't agree it fits the definition any more.

Who said generating an essay is useful sorry ? What problem does that solve?

Your comments come accross as overly optimistic and dismissive . Like you have something to gain personally and aren’t interested in listening to others feedback.

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#413

Post by kraig911 »

Calavar wrote: post #359
_acco wrote: post #207

AI (specifically Claude Sonnet via Cursor) has completely transformed my workflow. It's changed my job description as a programmer. (And I've been doing this for 13y – no greenhorn!) This wasn't the case with GPT-4/o. This capability is very new. When I spoke to a colleague at Microsoft about these changes, they were floored. Microsoft has made themselves synonymous with AI, yet their company is barely even leveragin…

I feel like I'm living in a different universe sometimes. The consensus on HN seems to be that you can be pretty productive with LLMs as coding assistants, but every time I try I find it borderline impossible to get functional code even for pretty straightforward prompts. I decided to fire up GPT-4o again today to see if maybe things have gotten better over the past few months. I asked GPT to write code to render a t…

Essentially to me it feels like almost all LLM's are either mid -> terrible if it's any system programming. Especially I've not had luck with anything outside of web programming and moreso anything NOT javascript / python. (jeez I wrote this sentence terribly)

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#414

Post by zamadatix »

Calavar wrote: post #359
_acco wrote: post #207

AI (specifically Claude Sonnet via Cursor) has completely transformed my workflow. It's changed my job description as a programmer. (And I've been doing this for 13y – no greenhorn!) This wasn't the case with GPT-4/o. This capability is very new. When I spoke to a colleague at Microsoft about these changes, they were floored. Microsoft has made themselves synonymous with AI, yet their company is barely even leveragin…

I feel like I'm living in a different universe sometimes. The consensus on HN seems to be that you can be pretty productive with LLMs as coding assistants, but every time I try I find it borderline impossible to get functional code even for pretty straightforward prompts. I decided to fire up GPT-4o again today to see if maybe things have gotten better over the past few months. I asked GPT to write code to render a t…

LLM coding assistants are more like another iteration in the jump from nothing -> Stack Overflow type resources than a replacement for you doing coding work as a programmer just because you can phrase the task as a prompt. If you measured the value of using resources like tutorials Stack Overflow posts by blindly merging the first 2 hundred line examples of the things you want to do, finding the result wasn't ideal, and declaring it a useless way to get functional code people would (rightfully) scratch their heads at you when you say they are living in a different world. Of course it didn't work right away, perhaps it was still better than figuring all of the boilerplate out on your own the first time you did it?

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#415

Post by Calavar »

zone411 wrote: post #407
Calavar wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just signed up for the free version. Claude Sonnet does properly use malloc/free to manage the buffer where GPT-4o screws up (Yay!) It manages to gets through the whole process of initializing a graphics device and grabbing a queue from the device. It took some questionable shortcuts to get there (and didn't leave any comments explaining those shortcuts and the problems they could cause down the road), but fine, th…

LLMs are much better at Python and JavaScript than at C/C++. This simple difference can account for much of the variation in people's experiences.

I agree, that could explain a lot of it. I also suspect that the length of the generated code plays a role. In my experience, LLMs sometimes peter out a bit and give up if the generated program gets too long, even if it's well within their context limit. (Where giving up means writing a comment that says "the rest of the implementation goes here" or starting to have consistency issues.) Python and JavaScript tend to be more succinct and so that issue probably comes up less.

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#416

Post by intended »

jonahx wrote: post #401
cleandreams wrote: post #398

The problem is that current generative AI is not actually intelligent. Yann LeCunn had a great tweet on this: Sometimes, the obvious must be studied so it can be asserted with full confidence: - LLMs can not answer questions whose answers are not in their training set in some form, - they can not solve problems they haven't been trained on, - they can not acquire new skills our knowledge without lots of human help, -…

"in some form" is doing a lot of work there. The problem is that, by the standards of most human beings, they are in fact doing what we informally call "inference" or "creating new things". That this is being accomplished by something that is "technically a fancy autocomplete" doesn't seem to matter practically... it's still doing all this useful and surprising stuff.

It is carrying lots of weight.

At this moment that’s the most sophisticated we can be in talking about LLMs.

I will say that the utility of these tools is not being denied. It’s just the struggle to explain the varied experiences.

I can get only as far as analogy, not precise definitions.

For me, LLMs are like the invention of microwave ovens. Very useful.

They aren’t like the discovery of fire.

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#417

Post by jcgrillo »

bamboozled wrote: post #304
slidehero wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reducing the load on overworked teachers by using GPT to generate exercises, quizes and explanations for students is "endless worthless sludge"?

I have teachers in my family, their lives have been basically ruined by people using ChatGPT-4 to cheat on their assignments. They spend their weekend trying to workout if someone has "actually written" this or not. So sorry, we're back to spam generator. Even if it's "good spam".

One potential fix, or at least a partial mitigation, could be to weight homework 50% and exams 50%, and if a student's exam grades differ from their homework grades by a significant amount (e.g. 2 standard deviations) then the lower grade gets 100% weight. It's a crude instrument, but it might do the job.

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#418

Post by warkdarrior »

matteoraso wrote: post #239
ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #52

I've trained as a neuroscientist and written a book about consciousness. I've worked in machine learning and built products for over 20 years and now use AI a fair bit in the ed-tech work we do. So I've seen how the field has progressed and also have been able to look at it from a perspective most AI/engineering people don't -- what does this artificial intelligence look like when compared to biological intelligence.…

I don't know anything about neuroscience, but is there anything in the brain even remotely like the transformer architecture? It can do a lot of things, but I don't think that it's capable of emulating human intelligence.

I don't know anything about biology, but is there anything in birds even remotely like the airplane? It can do a lot of things, but I don't think that it's capable of emulating bird flight.

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#419

Post by fuzztester »

andrewflnr wrote: post #400
fuzztester wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more negativity towards this comment of mine, than to some of my other ones, as shown by the greater downvotes. Jeepers creep ers! :)

Not-so-subtly mocking the top-level for not replying "yet", when they replied almost immediately after with a video of the relevant workflow, was not a move that made you look smart or nice.

Hey.

These are the four simple lines that I wrote above:

>Solid questions and comments, layer8.

>I notice that the person you replied to has not replied to you yet.

>It may be that they will, of course.

>But your points are good.

(Italics mine, and they were not in my original comment.)

You, above:

>when they replied almost immediately after with a video of the relevant workflow,

I did check the time intervals between the top level comment and layer8's comment, before my first reply. It is over an hour now, so I cannot see the exact times in minutes any more, but IIRC, there was a fairly long gap (in minutes). And I also think I noticed that the top level person did reply to someone else, but not to layer8, by the time I wrote my comment.

So I don't see anything wrong in what I said. I even said that they may reply later.

You consider that to be:

>"Not-so-subtly mocking"?

Jeez. I think you are wrong.

Then I have nothing further to say to you, except this:

>was not a move that made you look smart or nice.

Trying to look smart or nice is not the goal in online discussions. At least, I don't think so. You appear to think that. The goal (to me) is to say what you think, otherwise, why write at all? I could just get an LLM to write all my comments, and not care about its hallucinations.

I don't try to be smart or nice, nor the reverse. I just put my considered thoughts out there, just like anyone else. Obviously I can be right or wrong, just like anyone else can be. And some points can be subjective, so cannot be said to be definitely either right or wrong.

Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype

#420

Post by slidehero »

bamboozled wrote: post #412
slidehero wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>their lives have been basically ruined a bit dramatic. there has to be an adjustment of teaching/assessing, but nothing that would "ruin" anyone's life. >So sorry, we're back to spam generator. Even if it's "good spam". is it spam if it's useful and solves a problem? I don't agree it fits the definition any more. Teachers are under immense pressure, GPT allows a teacher to generate extension questions for gifted stu…

is it spam if it's useful and solves a problem? I don't agree it fits the definition any more. Who said generating an essay is useful sorry ? What problem does that solve? Your comments come accross as overly optimistic and dismissive . Like you have something to gain personally and aren’t interested in listening to others feedback.

I'm developing tools to help teachers generate learning material, exercises and quizes tailored to student needs.

>Who said generating an essay is useful sorry ? What problem does that solve?

Useful learning materials aligned with curriculum outcomes, taking into account learner needs and current level of understanding is literally the bread and butter of teaching.

I think those kinds of resources are both useful and solve a very real problem.

>Your comments come accross as overly optimistic and dismissive . Like you have something to gain personally and aren’t interested in listening to others feedback.

Fair point. I do have something to gain here. I've given a number of example prompts that are extremely useful for a working teacher in my replies to this thread. I don't think I'm being overly optimistic here. I'm not talking vague hypotheticals here, the tools that I'm building are already showing great usefulness.

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