Live data from Hacker News

Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

machinelearning.apple.com

411–420 of 562 posts

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#411

For people interested in AI research, there's nothing new here. IMO they should do a better job of referencing existing papers and techniques. The way they wrote about "adaptors" can make it seem like it's something novel, but it's actually just re-iterating vanilla LoRA. It was enough to convince one of the top-voted HackerNews comments that this was a "huge development". Benchmarks are nice though.

I think your conclusion is uncharitable or at least depends on how deep your interest in AI research actually is. Reading the docs, there are at least several points of novelty/interest:

* Clearly outlining their intent/policies for training/data use. Committing to no using user data or interactions for training their base models is IMO actually a pretty big deal and a differentiator from everyone else.

* There's a never-ending stream of new RL variants ofc, but that's how technology advances, and I'm pretty interested to see how these compare with the rest: "We have developed two novel algorithms in post-training: (1) a rejection sampling fine-tuning algorithm with teacher committee, and (2) a reinforcement learning from human feedback (RLHF) algorithm with mirror descent policy optimization and a leave-one-out advantage estimator. We find that these two algorithms lead to significant improvement in the model’s instruction-following quality."

* I'm interested to see how their custom quantization compares with the current SoTA (probably AQLM atm)

* It looks like they've done some interesting optimizations to lower TTFT, this includes the use of some sort of self-speculation. It looks like they also have a new KV-cache update mechanism and looking forward to reading about that as well. 0.6ms/token means that for your average I dunno, 20 token query you might only wait 12ms for TTFT (I have my doubts, maybe they're getting their numbers from much larger prompts, again, I'm interested to see for myself)

* Yes, it looks like they're using pretty standard LoRAs, the more interesting part is their (automated) training/re-training infrastructure but I doubt that's something that will be shared. The actual training pipeline (feedback collection, refinement, automated deployment) is where the real meat and potatoes of being able to deploy AI for prod/at scale lies. Still, what they shared about their tuning procedures is still pretty interesting, as well as seeing which models they're comparing against.

As this article doesn't claim to be a technical report or a paper, while citations would be nice, I can also understand why they were elided. OpenAI has done the same (and sometimes gotten heat for it, like w/ Matroyshka embeddings). For all we know, maybe the original author had references, or maybe since PEFT isn't new to those in the field, that describing it is just being done as a service to the reader - at the end of the day, it's up to the reader to make their own judgements on what's new or not, or a huge development or not. From my reading of the article, your conclusion, which funnily enough is now the new top-rated comment on this thread isn't actually much more accurate the the one old one you're criticizing.

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#412
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misinterpreted OP's comment. Apple makes it sound like there's smth new, but there isn't. They don't have to innovate, but it's good practice to credit who've done what they're taking and using. Also to use the names everyone else is already using.

The strange thing is Apple did mention (twice) in the article that their adapters are loras so I don't understand OP's comment.

I gathered from OP's "huge development" comment he was talking about others people's popular perception that it wasn't a lora.

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#413
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prototyping tech is one thing; making it a widely adopted success is another. For instance, Apple was the first to bring WiFi to laptops in 1999. Everyone laughed at them at the time. Who needs a wireless network when you can have a physical LAN, ey?

> For instance, Apple was the first to bring WiFi to laptops in 1999. Everyone laughed at them at the time. Who needs a wireless network when you can have a physical LAN, ey? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPort : "AirPort 802.11b card" "The original model, known as simply AirPort card, was a re-branded Lucent WaveLAN/Orinoco Gold PC card, in a modified housing that lacked the integrated antenna."

That was also how lucent’s access points worked.

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#414
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M2 is a chip designed to be in a laptop (and it is quite powerful given its low power consumption). Presumedly they have a different chip or at least completely different configuration (RAM, network, etc.) in their data centers.

There was a rumor floating around that Apple might try to enter the server chip business with an AI chip, which is an interesting concept. Apple's never really succeeded in the B2B business, but they have proven a lot of competency in the silicon space. Even their high-end prosumer hardware could be interesting as an AI workstation given the VRAM available if the software support were better.

> Apple's never really succeeded in the B2B business

Idk every business I’ve worked and all the places my friends work seem to be 90% Apple hardware, with a few Lenovo issued for special case roles in finance or something.

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#415

Halfway down the article contains some great charts with comparisons to other relevant models, like Mistral-7B for the on-device models, and both gpt-3.5 and 4 for the server-side models. They include data about the ratio of which outputs human graders preferred (for server side it’s better than 3.5, worse than 4). BUT, the interesting chart to me is „Human Evaluation of Output Harmfulness” which is much, much ”bette…

I want to know what they consider "harmful". Is it going to refuse to operate for sex workers, murder mystery writers, or people who use knives?

None of the use cases they presented in WWDC using Apple Intelligence was creative writing. There is one, that uses ChatGPT explicitly:

> And with Compose in Writing Tools, you can create and illustrate original content from scratch.

https://www.apple.com/apple-intelligence/

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#416

For people interested in AI research, there's nothing new here. IMO they should do a better job of referencing existing papers and techniques. The way they wrote about "adaptors" can make it seem like it's something novel, but it's actually just re-iterating vanilla LoRA. It was enough to convince one of the top-voted HackerNews comments that this was a "huge development". Benchmarks are nice though.

> For people interested in AI research, there's nothing new here. Was anyone expecting anything new? Apple has never been big on living at the cutting edge of technology exploring spaces that no one has explored before—from laptops to the iPhone to iPads to watches, every success they've had has come from taking tech that was already prototyped by many other companies and smoothing out the usability kinks to get it r…

> Apple has never been big on living at the cutting edge of technology

There was such a time. Same as with Google. Interestingly, around 2015-2016 both companies significantly shifted to iterative products from big innovations. It's more visible with Google than Apple, but here's both.

Apple:

- Final Cut Pro

- 1998: iMac

- 1999: iBook G3 (father of all MacBooks)

- 2000: Power Mac G4 Cube (the early grandparent of the Mac Mini form factor), Mac OS X

- 2001: iPod, iTunes

- 2002: Xserve (rackable servers)

- 2003: Iterative products only

- 2004: iWork Suite, Garage Band

- 2005: iPod Nano, Mac mini

- 2006: Intel Macs, Boot Camp

- 2007: iPhone and Apple TV

- 2008: MacBook Air, iPhone 3G

- 2009: iPhone 3Gs, all-in-one iMac

- 2010: iPad, iPhone 4

- 2011: Final Cut Pro X

- 2012: Retina displays, iBooks Author

- 2013: iWork for iCloud

- 2014: Swift

- 2015: Apple Watch, Apple Music

- 2016: Iterative products only

- 2017: Iterative products mainly, plus ARKit

- 2018: Iterative products only

- 2019: Apple TV +, Apple Arcade

- 2020: M1

- 2021: Iterative products only

- 2022: Iterative products only

- 2023: Apple Vision Pro

Google:

- 1998: Google Search

- 2000: AdWords (this is where it all started going wrong, lol)

- 2001: Google Images Search

- 2002: Google News

- 2003: Google AdSense

- 2004: Gmail, Google Books, Google Scholar

- 2005: Google Maps, Google Earth, Google Talk, Google Reader

- 2006: Google Calendar, Google Docs, Google Sheets, YouTube bought this year

- 2007: Street View, G Suite

- 2008: Google Chrome, Android 1.0

- 2009: Google Voice, Google Wave (early Docs if I recall correctly)

- 2010: Google Nexus One, Google TV

- 2012: Google Drive

- 2013: Chromecast

- 2014: Android Wear, Android Auto, Google Cardboard, Nexus 6, Google Fit

- 2015: Google Photos

- 2016: Google Assistant, Google Home

- 2017: Mainly iterative products only, Google Lens announced but it never rolled out really

- 2018: Iterative products only

- 2019: Iterative products only

- 2020: Iterative products only, and some rebrands (Talk->Chat, etc)

- 2021: Iterative products only, and Tensor Chip

- 2022: Iterative products only

- 2023: Iterative products only, and Bard (half-baked).

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who dislike censorship and enjoy hacking avoid iPhones for obvious reasons.

People who understand cybersecurity hygiene use iPhones for obvious reasons

People who understand cybersecurity who are not operating within a US-allied country use ... I don't know what to be honest. What to do in such a situation, where Apple is a US-based company obligated by law to comply with requests from three letter agencies and Android is a buggy mess which probably is backdoored by every major power?

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Steam Deck ships with 16 gigs of quad-channel LPDDR5 and it costs $400. Apple knows exaaaactly what they're doing with this sort of pricing. Can't forget about that cozy 256gb SSD either. An AI computer will need more than that, right?

Is steamdeck sold at cost? From what I know Apple has a rule that everything must be sold at 40% margins. That is prob the main reason.

It's been speculated that base config macbooks essentially act as loss leaders for higher end configs, so overall, probably sales across the line net somewhere around that. The cost of the upgrades themselves can get to multiple times the actual market cost.

Re: Apple's On-Device and Server Foundation Models

#419
post #414
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a rumor floating around that Apple might try to enter the server chip business with an AI chip, which is an interesting concept. Apple's never really succeeded in the B2B business, but they have proven a lot of competency in the silicon space. Even their high-end prosumer hardware could be interesting as an AI workstation given the VRAM available if the software support were better.

> Apple's never really succeeded in the B2B business Idk every business I’ve worked and all the places my friends work seem to be 90% Apple hardware, with a few Lenovo issued for special case roles in finance or something.

They mean server infrastructure.
Post reply on HN