Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

alinpanaitiu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 545 posts

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#411

Post by sebastianz »

jononor wrote: post #408
brazzy wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would say 99.999% of all modern work is "surrogate activity" (an activity that is directed toward an artificial goal that people set up for themselves merely in order to have some goal to work toward.) That's one of the most absurd hyperboles (or the most detached-from-realiy statements) I have ever seen. That would mean only one out of 100,000 people is doing "real" work. Or if you spread it evenly, less than on…

1 in 100k is a stretch. But 1 in 10 maybe? Physically we need water, food, shelter and medical care. Around 10% of US workforce is in agriculture, but a decent chunk of that is probably for providing non-essentials foodstuffs. So maybe only 10% work on actually providing all the essentials for human life.

Last time I was at the doctor's for a bone fracture I have been treated by people with tens of years of experience and education, in a gigantic building, and my bones were scanned by tools that cost millions and were science fiction 2 generations ago.

Water food and shelter are not all there is to a comfortable life.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#412

Post by htrp »

irrational wrote: post #327
sukruh wrote: post #35

Most of the people I know who pursue creative/crafting hobbies alongside a software development job have chosen to work for well-known big companies, for prestige and safety, and ended up unfulfilled in their jobs. Most big companies are not good if you want to solve problems and build stuff. Especially "the enterprise", where software is seen as a cost center so the less of it the better. The effort of managing up e…

I like the big companies because I can be paid a hefty six figure salary while working 4 hour days and spending the rest of the hours doing woodworking, gardening, home remodeling, baking, exercising, reading, etc.

Do you count the meetings as work?

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#413

Post by Izkata »

neon_electro wrote: post #134
josephg wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. But I’ve been programming for 30 years and I have some strong intuitions around where my code needs an empty line to space things out. Stuff like that. The day I first tried gofmt and it removed some of my carefully considered whitespace, I turned around, put blood on my hands in the old way and made a promise to the night that my soul belongs to me and gofmt will never sully my code with its corporate BS…

This is why linters are configurable; if your team doesn't care about consistent use of semicolons, ignore that linter. Right?

I have similar feelings as GP about Black (probably the most popular python code formatter), which goes by the philosophy that linters should not be configurable because that just moves conversations about styles from the code to which rules to use.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#414

Post by [deleted] »

isametry wrote: post #293
skeeter2020 wrote: post #290

Nothing destroys your love of a hobby, even one that you are passionately (or even obsessively) dedicated to, like making it your job. I LOVE riding bikes but all the BS of working in software is preferable to trying to support my love of bikes within the broader industry of bikes. The word "amateur" has negative connotations, but should really be interpreted as "not your primary pay cheque", not that you suck.

Isn’t “hobbyist” the exact word you’re looking for?

[deleted]

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#415

Post by mlsu »

azemetre wrote: post #125
smackeyacky wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s soul destroying knowing your talents are wasted for 40+ hours a week

It’s only soul destroying if you let it be. As someone who grew up in poverty and spent most of my 20s working at a call center and pawn shop, I feel like the luckiest person in my family with my soul destroying corporate job. It sounds cliche but happiness is truly a state of mind. You don’t have to wait for something in the future to be happy now.

These conversations where highly paid software people complain about insanely minor things (the code linter is the worst part of your job??) are actually kind of nice to read, in a funny way.

The privilege of having pixels be the most stressful part of your life... it's actually really nice to read that. Having perspective from hardship is good, and everyone will have at least some perspective at some point in their life when hardship is forced upon them. But hardship in and of itself isn't good. I'm happy it is being completely eradicated from life, at least for some of us.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#416

Post by alin23 »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #259
criddell wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> projects where you can charge five figures for a dining table The best way to avoid turning a meditative hobby into a job is to resist the urge to monetize it. Your basic carpentry diss is unwarranted IMHO. I enjoyed reading about and seeing the projects produced with simple tools and some work. The author is clearly very creative and resourceful and I bet this inspires a few people look for a creative outlet of th…

> The best way to avoid turning a meditative hobby into a job is to resist the urge to monetize it. This is exactly what I meant. However OP started off talking about switching careers. As a hobby they are doing great, producing stuff they need and having fun doing that. No-one can criticize this. > Your basic carpentry diss is unwarranted IMHO. If it's a hobby sure, absolutely. I think the stuff they are doing is fi…

Author here! Don't worry, I'm well aware that what I can create currently can't be sold :) what I can currently do is like an MVP in wood, I cut a lot of corners (literally) just to see the thing done, and live with the defects. A client would not live with the defects, they would want something perfect for their money.

I didn't really mean "switching careers" although I see how that can be read that way. I meant more like leaving the current app income stagnate until it goes down, and in that time I would eventually find a more physical job to support me. Not necessarily woodworking.

I watch youtubers that work their asses off to earn thousands of dollars on a piece they've worked months, and like I said there's no undo. A mistake can set you back a lot. I know we have it good in software.

I don't know if I'll ever have the skills to create wood things that I would be able to sell. I'm thinking maybe I could do that with Kavals, there's less expectation and competition there. But furniture.. I don't know, I will probably end up in the same state as with software.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#417

Post by randomdata »

isametry wrote: post #293
skeeter2020 wrote: post #290

Nothing destroys your love of a hobby, even one that you are passionately (or even obsessively) dedicated to, like making it your job. I LOVE riding bikes but all the BS of working in software is preferable to trying to support my love of bikes within the broader industry of bikes. The word "amateur" has negative connotations, but should really be interpreted as "not your primary pay cheque", not that you suck.

Isn’t “hobbyist” the exact word you’re looking for?

A hobbyist is an amateur who enjoys the activity. It adds some precision to to what he is looking for, but is still dependent on what you take amateur to mean. Someone "who sucks", but at least enjoys it, is not what he is trying to convey.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#419

Post by nsguy »

cityofdelusion wrote: post #306
whartung wrote: post #223

I used to (actually I still do) quip about if, back in the day, I spent the money I did on computer equipment instead on woodworking tools, not only would I have a shop that could probably compare with Norm Abraham’s, but id still have a majority of them and they’d still work.

Woodworking is insanely expensive from my experience. I saved way more money when computers and electronics were my hobby. Some software is like what $50-70 max? A full 3d printing kit is $1000. Buying mere wood to start a project is in the hundreds, minimum, and the tool equivalent to a high end Ryzen processor _starts_ in the thousands.

I built my first electric guitar with wood from a construction site junk pile and hand tools. I've built my work bench from wood that came from heavy-weight pallets (some random hardish wood from China) that were given away by someone on Craigslist. I have piles of wood sitting in my driveway that are from trunks of a tree cut down that were cut into slabs using a chainsaw.

Tools-wise I bought a used bandsaw for cheap. Added a riser block and made it a pretty awesome tool. I bought a jointer from someone down the street, again for cheap, replaced the knives and it's pretty good. You can get started for reasonably cheap.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#420

Post by firstplacelast »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #255
_yb2s wrote: post #239

I don't understand why more adults don't have awesome hobbies... most of my childhood friends don't seem to do anything fun now as adults. I really love physical things I can do with my body as a counterbalance to working on the computer- weight lifting, woodworking, and sailing add a lot of value to my life, and have gotten me outdoors and in shape. I'm currently building a wood sailboat in my garage together with m…

What time is left after work, kids, sleep, and personal obligations for the median adult? Awesome hobbies are awesome! But they require time, and in some cases, financial resources.

I agree with this to at extent, but will give a brief anecdote. My dad was/is a hobbyist woodworker and that's part of what he did on weekends. Typically late spring-early fall. However, 90%+ of his projects revolved around home improvement. Large decks and patios, chairs/benches for the kitchen table, playground sets, awning for the RV, redoing floors in the house, etc.

The larger projects would often span two summers. He also did not contribute to his projects on Sundays because he is religious.

Post reply on HN