Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
411–420 of 829 posts
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs. In one sense, sure. But in another sense Edge taking Chrome's tabs means Microsoft is getting insight into Google's data. A lot of Apple's defenses seem really targeted at reducing the ability of Microsoft, Google, and Meta to extract value from Apple's users. Apple sees the union of all the app…
After all, Apple users are the product. They even pay for the privilege!
They are a cash flow generating financial product, like a bond ETF. Apple packages users, resell them to the highest bidder, and interest is collected as return on investment from the payments users make.
Ofc, like a bond, a user pays for a reason: he gets something out of the facility provided by Apple, in kind.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#413Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should we trust Apple for security in that context? Apple also provides all those functionalities via their proprietary API, which is not even audit-able. If Apple really believes in that argument, they should disable their own API as well.
You have to trust someone if you're using a computing device connected to the Internet. The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, and then (supposedly) you can not trust anyone else. To many that's a very strong proposition.
But that's what the EU is willing to reform. Apple isnt a EU company, hell it may even not contribute much to the tax base, there's less reason to trust them in exchange for gatekeeping against EU companies trying to generate tax revenue on their plarform.
Trusting Apple is nice in the US where it's probably a net contributor to the country's development. Elsewhere, not so.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#415I am on Apples side here. I have been a macOS and iPhone user for over a decade now, but have had Android devices and I use Windows for games and work. I think what the EU has done to Apple is unfair. It is unfortunate in my opinion that they can’t just tell them to get stuffed. They have had to build probably 100-million LOCs just so EU have the right to pick their own browser, and yet Safari works just fine. In fac…
Safari is the IE10 of today. Every single feature we build out, we need to test it thoroughly on Safari because stuff that works in FF/Chromium just doesn't work the same in Safari. A sizeable chunk of our frontend codebase has a bunch of workarounds specifically for Safari because of its quirks.
> Their core strategy has always been to keep cost low...
You realize this is Apple we're talking about right, the company with the most outrageous pricing strategies?
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it was 6 months old and she doesn't care about it or phones. She thought it was broken. I charged it with my powerbank, an anker PD one and she ordered a proper charger off amazon. I gave her my spare USB-C cable. It was seen as a potential financial inconvenience having to do anything about it as well. Literally many people do not care enough to understand it. It's just a modern necessity, a tool.
This is my wife. She purchased a bunch of USB-A to USB-c cables off Amazon and wonders why her laptop runs out of power while plugged in - it's because the laptop needs 25-30 watts and those cables can only put out 5 watts because they're limited by the USB-A port. USB-c PD is such a dumpster fire of a standard. Even with supposedly high end cables like Anker you often can't charge a Macbook Pro faster than it can dr…
I recently discovered that I can use my iPad and MacBook charging brick to test PD of a usb cable. If it’s low wattage, the charging brick will not provide any power to the iPad. High wattage and it will.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#417As a European dev I want apple to fail super hard and implode. They used to be so cool and make slick hardware for their nische but now I'm happy to use worse hardware as long as they disapear from the face of the earth.
As an American dev I can't wait to see tech companies leave the EU and leave it in shambles as the EU realizes it never learnt how to innovate, only legislate and rent-seek from our companies. Frankly, the region needs us far more than we need it.
If it wasn't for Turing your job might not have been a thing. If it wasn't for Tim Berners-Lee, we might not have been here having this discussion.
Hint: neither is/was American. Just to throw some examples.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#418Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…
The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…
> The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity
This is a trite argument that hasn’t been true ever since Jen Simmons joined Apple in 2020 and changed the course of Safari significantly to the point that PWAs not only are viable, they have been given feature parity with native apps on many fronts.
Simultaneously, the argument completely bypasses the fact that install rates of PWAs are abysmal on any platform. Whether it be iOS, Android or Windows.
Contrary to what PWA developers, industry organizations and other stakeholders proselytize, PWAs aren’t the second coming and the next best thing since sliced bread. At least not when it comes to install rates.
Edit:
Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure they’re great as “websites”.
Lord knows people who sell PWAs[0] love to brag about bounce rates and conversion rates and what not. But there’s a reason why you can find barely anything about install rates other than some vague statistics about individual unnamed PWAs[1] or PWA sellers[2] talking about obviously bogus 10x and 3-5x install rates, and it’s not because the PWA crowd is too shy to brag.
1: https://developer.chrome.com/blog/pwa-install-features
2: https://mobsted.com/pwa_vs_native_mobile_apps_install_rates_...
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…
> you can see that unless at an OS level you provide additional 'meta-security' features that allow apps that run in other apps to have fine grains access control that is managed by the OS, it's pretty much "security? Well, whatever...". I don't think that's the only solution. A simple alternative is to declare that "apps that run in other apps don't get to do anything at all." I.e. in this case, in response to a EU…
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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you can see that unless at an OS level you provide additional 'meta-security' features that allow apps that run in other apps to have fine grains access control that is managed by the OS, it's pretty much "security? Well, whatever...". I don't think that's the only solution. A simple alternative is to declare that "apps that run in other apps don't get to do anything at all." I.e. in this case, in response to a EU…
Then everyone will just bitch PWAs can't do anything.
The Peapod grocery delivery app was already just single webview to their website. Worked fine.