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YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

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Re: YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

#411

Post by MSFT_Edging »

Pathogen-David wrote: post #407
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few weeks ago I posted on here about the maps lag, and it literally felt like it was fixed after the comment got some attention. There's 100% targeted de-optimization for firefox users and the burden of finding it is on the users it seems.

Not to diminish the other sketchy stuff Google's doing, but I think the maps lag issue might actually be Firefox's fault. Whenever it happens to me WebGL stops working across all websites and restarting the entire browser fixes it. It's almost like when Firefox has been open a long time it just forgets how to use graphics acceleration.

The thing that bothered me is it didn't always happen, at one point there was performance parity, and things changed in a way that specifically worked worse in firefox.

Which means:

A) Firefox had bad webgl implementations(I didn't experience what you did, but I wont say it doesn't happen) and google added features that regressed the experience on other browsers.

B) Google knowingly made performance worse on Firefox, regardless of webgl implementations.

C) Google leverages its own browser to only test on their browser, to influence the market to have to use googles browser in order to use their services(not the same as the IE/Windows monopoly lawsuit, but sure smells like it).

Re: YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

#412

Post by foob »

taylodl wrote: post #387
foob wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, the decisions are locally reasonable. However, if not supporting Firefox potentially exposed my company to scrutiny over anti-competitive behavior, then, yes, I would absolutely invest in testing procedures to mitigate that. It's also worth emphasizing that it isn't difficult to support Firefox. I'm pretty sure that many of the sites that I visit do so largely by accident. I do a fair bit of web developmen…

Serious question - does anti-competitive behavior even apply to open source? Also, it's the open source chromium, not necessarily the browser Chrome, that dominates the browser market. The largest players in the industry, except for Apple, have lined-up to support chromium. Firefox is going against the grain. Is it Google's job to help them with their mission? Loosely speaking, in anti-competitive scenarios you have…

you have to show how a significant faction of the consumers are being harmed. You're going to have a tough time with that one.

I'm not a lawyer and can't speak to what qualifies as anti-competitive behavior in a legal sense. Qualitatively, Web Extensions Manifest v3 and Web Environment Integrity are clearly harmful to consumers in my opinion. The first significantly hinders ad blockers, and the second kicks down the ladder on building search engines and hinders competition in that space. Other browsers using Chromium as a base doesn't change the fact that Google almost unilaterally controls it, and Google has made it extraordinarily clear that they're interested in making decisions that prioritize their own best interests over those of their users. I don't see why Chromium being open source would absolve any responsibility here, especially when the open source project in question primarily exists to serve the interests of the profit center of a mega-corp. I deeply support open source software, and I'm glad that Chromium is open source, but being open source doesn't excuse behavior that is against the interests of users whether it qualifies as illegal or not.

Re: YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

#413

Post by imiric »

jasode wrote: post #403
imiric wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those features are available in OSS tools as well. And for those that are not, there are alternative solutions that might take a bit of work to implement. I'm not claiming that the OSS tools have feature parity with 1st party frontends, or that they won't require some sacrifices, or effort adjusting. I just think that the trade-off of losing some of the convenience in return for not being tracked and manipula…

>Scrubbing in mpv is instantaneous for me for local files Yes, I agree that scrubbing in mpv or vlc is "instantaneous" but Youtube's web ui is even more hyperfast "instaneous" than mpv. >There is also a solution for generating thumbnails[1], though I had some issues with it, and didn't end up using it. For me, using an offline tool like thumbfast to generate timeline previews defeats the purpose of using Youtube's pr…

That's fair. It's indeed a difference in usage.

My only usage of YT is queing up videos for short-term playback. So I browse a feed of my subscriptions in Piped, drag links of videos I'm interested in to a text file, and run a small script on my HTPC to download them with yt-dlp in parallel, and add them to a playlist. With a fast connection, it only takes a few minutes to download even dozens of videos at a time. Then I serve the videos on my LAN over HTTP with nginx, and watch them on any of my devices using any media player that can stream HTTP, which is usually mpv.

I started a project some time ago to make this fancier, but honestly, this workflow does 90% of what I need, and I'm too lazy to change it.

To each their own :)

Re: YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

#414

Post by taylodl »

foob wrote: post #412
taylodl wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question - does anti-competitive behavior even apply to open source? Also, it's the open source chromium, not necessarily the browser Chrome, that dominates the browser market. The largest players in the industry, except for Apple, have lined-up to support chromium. Firefox is going against the grain. Is it Google's job to help them with their mission? Loosely speaking, in anti-competitive scenarios you have…

you have to show how a significant faction of the consumers are being harmed. You're going to have a tough time with that one. I'm not a lawyer and can't speak to what qualifies as anti-competitive behavior in a legal sense. Qualitatively, Web Extensions Manifest v3 and Web Environment Integrity are clearly harmful to consumers in my opinion. The first significantly hinders ad blockers, and the second kicks down the…

I think you're going to have a tough time with Chromium seeing as how the likes of Microsoft and Canonical are contributing to the project. You're also going to have a tough time showing anti-trust when Google is working with Apple. I'm old enough to remember some famous anti-trust lawsuits where the plaintiffs had a much more solid case and still lost. In this case Google is literally working with the industry's largest companies. You're going to have a really hard time with that.

Re: YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

#415

Post by asylteltine »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #185

As a JavaScript Dev, around 2010-2012 it was not uncommon to see `setTimeout(..., n)` hacks, often with n=0 but sometimes even n=1000, n=5000 into a codebase. This could workaround some bugs, and given the overall low-quality state of the JS ecosystem back then, often a last-resort. And yes, am guilty too of committing this to prod back then. I think I haven't had a case where this was deployed in the last decade, bu…

> given the overall low-quality state of the JS ecosystem back then

As opposed to now?

Re: YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

#416

Post by zamadatix »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #210
MereInterest wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of behavior should be an open-and-shut case of false advertising. You were told that the video would be a certain resolution. You gave money as a result of that statement. You received an inferior product to the one that was described.

Isn't that fraudulent? Its amazing how an individual can commit fraud one time and its FRAUD! But a company can do the exact same thing en masse as like a business model over and over and its only ever a misunderstanding that they get a chance to correct and a gentleman's handshake. aAnd even if they didn't, it seems impossible to adjust the dial from civil to criminal as its often left in the consumers hands. Its no…

It's crappy behavior but I think screaming fraud is taking things a bit far. If you buy a Blu-ray from a website you don't come back screaming fraud because the browser or computer you you used doesn't play Blu-rays due to the DRM requirements. A refund request fits the scenario much better and the company's response tells you whether they are worth doing business with, not whether you were the victim of fraud. Some responsibility still lies with the buyer that they will understand what it takes to use the thing they are buying and not expect to rely 100% on the seller to verify everything for them beforehand.

At the same time... I think the behavior is pretty shitty, just not illegal, in that it takes minor up front effort to resolve. An explicit message along the lines of "You won't be able to watch in higher quality on this browser/device combination. Do you still want to purchase the high quality version for use on another device? You'll still be able to watch either version on this device, just always in low quality" goes a long way.

Re: YouTube slows down video load times when using Firefox

#420

Post by Vicinity9635 »

bambax wrote: post #118
CapsAdmin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something related to this which I find extremely frustrating is that I'm capable of watching a 4k video in my browser just fine. So if I decide to buy or rent a movie on youtube, they can only be played back at 420p. Apparently this is due to DRM restrictions, but the frustrating part is that you can pay extra money for the HD version and there's nothing telling you about this not being supported in your browser unti…

Buy a movie on YT or DVD, and then... watch a torrented version? This isn't the future we were promised, but it sure is the future we have.

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