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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#411

Post by jhugo »

causi wrote: post #277
jhugo wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re mixing up mini-USB and micro-USB. Also, the board attachment is not strictly speaking part of the connector standard. Manufacturers are free to, and do, screw that up in myriad ways.

No, I'm not. The connector side of micro-USB is usually the failure point. I had mini-USB receptacles fail at an extremely high rate back when I was building and selling mini-USB 2.5 inch external hard drive enclosures back in high school. Micro-USB wasn't even invented until 2007.

If you’re not mixing them up, then I have no idea how to interpret your grandparent comment:

> The idea that micro-USB and USB-C are supposed to be equally durable is the wrongest thing I've read all day. Frankly, mini-USB is the single most delicate connector I've ever used. Other than a couple PDAs, I never owned a single mini-USB device those receptacle didn't end up breaking off the board.

What do the second and third sentences have to do with the first sentence? They read like they’re supposed to provide the (otherwise completely missing) support for your statement that it’s the “wrongest thing you’ve read all day”, but they don’t.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#413

Post by throw555chip »

arcticbull wrote: post #178
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

USB A was released in 1996, it's older than I suspect the majority of HN readers at this point. An A to C cable is entirely passive, so not exactly a big deal to get a cheap adapter. Not sure I'd rely on keyboards as the standard bearer for 'not a relic' many of them still support PS/2 via passive adapter. That was announced in 1987 and is older than me.

The wheel was invented before anyone living today yet it remains relevant.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#414

Post by Symbiote »

KineticLensman wrote: post #338
rezonant wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VGA connectors were incredibly irritating to deal with, especially since so many of them were equipped with smooth screwing bolts with very little area to spin them with your fingers. I for one don't miss this.

Some of them actually had an end slot that could be tightened / untightened by a regular screwdriver It took me ages to realise this.

In the 1980s and presumably before, plugs like this often only had screws you needed a screwdriver to tighten.

I don't know if this was to prevent people disconnecting things, or if the expectation was that once connected, things should stay that way for years.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#415

Post by MobiusHorizons »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #393
onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The insertion cycles are only for proper insertion. Like when you are looking at it and doing it at a correct angle. Also, rated lifetime does not take into account things like tugging the cable to the side of your PC because your foot got tangled in it. USB C is extremely fragile due to its size and not much can be done to help it. USB C might be created to withstand more insertion cycles. After all it is meant to b…

> Nobody I know is plugging in their keyboard or mouse multiple times a day. If you securely store a laptop at the end of each workday then you're up to 1 cycle per day minimum. It will be more than that if you're required to secure the laptop during coffee breaks and/or if you work from several places in a work-day.

The quote is specifically talking about desktops not mobile use cases like laptops

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#416

Post by throw555chip »

sh-run wrote: post #138
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

My mouse and keyboard are both usb-c and I wasn't specifically looking for usb-c when I ordered either of them. Logitech MX Master 3 and Keychron Q1. They are both relatively high end devices, but I don't think it's hard to find usb-c devices. That said I do own lots of usb-a devices and will continue to own them for the foreseeable future. I would not purchase a laptop that was usb-c only today.

This keyboard is brand new, Type A. I don't recall any I was shopping for to be Type C.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#417

Post by [deleted] »

rightbyte wrote: post #304
rezonant wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VGA connectors were incredibly irritating to deal with, especially since so many of them were equipped with smooth screwing bolts with very little area to spin them with your fingers. I for one don't miss this.

If you wanted to have quick insert connection you could just not tighten the screws. I almost never tightened the screws, but it was good on monitors which were pivoting. I am writing this on a screen where the HDMI connector pops out if a even touch it.

[deleted]

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#419

Post by lxgr »

hurryer wrote: post #199
arcticbull wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

Minimum is just that, minimum. Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C.

I've seen many.

In more rental cars than not, the USB-A port is somewhat worn out, which is really annoying as it can make CarPlay connections quite fragile.

I've also seen many USB-A ports in airplanes not being able to hold the cable anymore due to the spring contacts being worn out or having been bent out of shape.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#420

Post by lxgr »

picture wrote: post #183
arcticbull wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way. > Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1] > To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved fro…

I think it's a bit ironic that the cable is considered more costly than the receptacle, which is generally true if you consider the device as a whole, but now we have multiple hundreds of dollars thunderbolt cables and the cap on the actual receptacle component is below $10 even for ones with support for higher speeds. But then again, most people don't have the SMD rework tooling to be able to easily replace receptac…

Paying multiple hundreds of dollars is a choice, not a necessity. An active 40 Gbps, 240W cable is around $50 these days. I doubt that most repair shops would even give you a repair estimate for less than that.

> But then again, most people don't have the SMD rework tooling to be able to easily replace receptacles

And that's exactly why a reasonable design assumes that buying a new cable will be the preferred option (over having to re-solder components on a device) by most consumers. It certainly is for me.

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