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Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

especiales.eldiario.es

411–420 of 457 posts

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#411

The site is beautiful, and yet I ask myself questions like: What is the hydrological impact of urbanization? This can both impact hydrological cycles (see millan millan's papers "greening and browning in a climate change hotspot") and possibly subsurface in karst and aquifer life

Don't forget when asking this question that a higher city is less wide (probably) and so while it affects the area it covers more, there is less area affected at all.

Also car usage is way lower

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#412

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

There’s evidence that constant unwanted noise can negatively impact our health: https://archive.ph/5mvYQ (nytimes) I don’t mind visiting cities, but I certainly would never live in one.

Only badly made cities, where authorities do not care about noise, are loud. And the irony is that most of the noise comes from people living outside of the cities, bringin their cars outside in the typical egoism of the modern suburbanite and rural inhabitants.

It is like people who complain about public teansports who are usually the ones actively participating in ruining it for everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#413
post #325
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spain also has the lowest fertility rate in Europe at 1.28. Not sure how much apartment living is cause or effect on that but it's a grim number. Spain's economy is very screwed up. Unemployment rate tends to hover above 20% and I think it has the highest rate of students dropping out of basic education. To top things off, cost of living in urban centers is way way above the median income, specially nowadays. Young…

> Unemployment rate tends to hover above 20% and I think it has the highest rate of students dropping out of basic education. The first claim is true, but there's a lot of under-reported economic activity, and a lot of fraud (people claiming they don't work when they actually do), so the unemployment rate figure can't be trusted. Your second claim around the highest rate of students dropping out of basic education ne…

> but there's a lot of under-reported economic activity,

I'm sorry, but that's just hand-waving over the problem to pretend it isn't there.

> Your second claim around the highest rate of students dropping out of basic education needs a citation.

I learned that fact because the Spanish Government posts tv ad campaigns on how Spain has the highest rate if students dropping out of basic education, and how they should instead explore options such as pursuing trade education.

If you really are interested on the topic, you could start by checking what OECD has to say about Spain's education problem, including how 27% of its 25-34 yo cohort (i.e., the latest generation entering the workforce) did not complete basic studies and does not have postsecondary education. Spain also boasts a NEET rate of 17%.

https://www.oecd.org/education/education-at-a-glance/

Spain's astronomical dropout rate is not a secret. The issue was even reported in Swedish news outlets.

https://www.thelocal.es/20221003/spain-has-the-eus-highest-r...

It's also noteworthy that Spain's horeca industry started to rely on heavy influxes of immigrants from South America to meet their demand, in spite of Spain having one of the highest unemployment rates in Europe.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#414
post #229

Outstanding—compelling presentation loaded with data. Perhaps the conclusion should be that the world should move to efficient 75% or so apartment living. UK at 15% is a huge outlier for a top 10 economy.

Much more efficient to bomb also (2023 was a real eye opener).

The lesson there is: if you're going to live densely, then don't make enemies out of your neighbors who have a lot more military power than you.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#415

What a fantastic site! Wish more titea were build this way. It was an awesome experience! I’m an outsider living in Spain for the last 22 years, I think that while the content portrays a reality of the high rise movement in Spain, there is an angle that was missed. It is important to say that the at time draconian land laws pay an important role in the urban landscape. Not to mention that Spain relative young democra…

> Spain has not discovers property taxes like the US

I wonder what you mean by this, since homeowners in Spain do pay a property tax with similar rates to the US's (around 1% of assessed value).

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#416

I don't have a large enough sample to make a statement, but my impression is apartments in Spain are larger than in the US. Even if you want to live in an apartment, if you want more space you are forced to buy a house. You can't get a 4 bedroom apartment (3 kids? separate office? hobby room?...) You can't get an apartment with two "living rooms" (music room, tv room, rec room...). You don't need any of that, but if…

Yeah, in Spain "apartamentos" refers to smaller flats; since most of the population lives in flats there's a much wider array of sizes to choose from. The typical middle class family-sized flat is about 80-120 m2, 900-1300 sqft.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#417
post #83

A bit ironic how the first example is of La Coruña and literally everyone from there absolutely hates the fact that the ugly brutalist Franco-era flats absolutely destroyed the vibe of the coastal cities in Galicia (e.g. Cayon, O Grove, Baiona, etc.). My sister lives in Santiago de Compostela and her in-laws are from the area so I've had a lot of conversations with them.

That was probably the point of the article.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#418
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s evidence that constant unwanted noise can negatively impact our health: https://archive.ph/5mvYQ (nytimes) I don’t mind visiting cities, but I certainly would never live in one.

Cities aren't loud. Cars are loud.[0] I live in Malmö on the southern edge of Sweden opposite Copenhagen, it's quieter here (pop: 350,000~) than my friends home village in Northamptonshire (Thrapston; pop: 6,239 as of 2011). This was largely because of the sheer volume of cars on the road, because you essentially have to drive to get anywhere. London is similar, despite not everyone needing a car there is traffic eve…

> Cars are loud.[0]

Wheels rolling are loud. Also motorbikes. Combustion engines are even louder, and they are also put on bikes.

Disillusioned young pedal-metalling in residential neighborhoods are the f*king worst.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#419
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Spanish love the noise is my theory Totally. I think to them it represents and demonstrates liberation, freedom, fun, family and community. Loud means fun to them. People complaining about noise are seen as serious party-poopers.

Spaniard here. No, it depends. The Castilles can be pretty silent/quiet/calm compared to Andalusia and the Eastern coast.

Oh that's interesting.

Do you (or: do people usually) exclude Madrid from Castilla? That's the only place in Spain I've lived and would not class the people I knew as quiet and calm. But then again it's a melting pot of people from all over Spain, so who knows!

And the calmest and quietest people I met were from the east coast :D

Definitely agree about Andalusia though

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s evidence that constant unwanted noise can negatively impact our health: https://archive.ph/5mvYQ (nytimes) I don’t mind visiting cities, but I certainly would never live in one.

Only badly made cities, where authorities do not care about noise, are loud. And the irony is that most of the noise comes from people living outside of the cities, bringin their cars outside in the typical egoism of the modern suburbanite and rural inhabitants. It is like people who complain about public teansports who are usually the ones actively participating in ruining it for everyone. https://www.youtube.com/wa…

It's not just authorities, it's cultural. Some cultures are simply much louder than others. I live in Tokyo and it's generally very quiet here, despite (usually older) apartments having a bad reputation for paper-thin walls. Public transit is generally whisper-quiet (as far as the riders; the trains themselves of course are not), as people generally don't talk much, and talking on the phone is prohibited. People who make too much noise will probably get the police called on them, but that only works in a society where there's a culturally low tolerance for noise, so it's not really up to the authorities.
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