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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#411

Post by lukeramsden »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #383
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like theres a lot of missing legislation. The situation creates a huge conflict of interests. Then again, scalping itself out to be illegal; it’s just a form of exploiting someone else’s work to extract money from average folk without creating any value or meaningful work.

I'm honestly not sure anymore if scalping should be delegalized. I'm increasingly convinced that it's only the problem because everyone is in on it , with artists using scalpers as "heat sinks", to get more money while pretending they're the victim, and everyone is well compensated for the role they play in the scheme. If that's the case, then the entire structure is the problem, and it starts with artists exploiting…

I did some research in to this this year in the context of maybe trying to start a business to solve this - and this was the conclusion I came to. There’s lots of threads here on HN about it too. It’s a structural, market-wide issue where the primary service Ticketmaster provide is reputation laundering, and in return, large agents and promoters agree to continue to use Ticketmaster despite their reputation.

I don’t know what the solution is.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#412

Post by [deleted] »

Retric wrote: post #410
lolinder wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at this from a strictly monetary lens, but the entertainment industry lives and dies on reputation. It's worth a lot of money to have someone else take the fall for the inevitable results of high demand. Ticketmaster's one job is to launder the artist's reputation. They find ways to milk the show for more money than fans think is fair and keep a chunk of that extra cash as their fee, which from the art…

That’s a common theory, but artists like Taylor Swift are willing to take the blame and avoid Ticketmaster. Ticketmaster has a monopoly position and is exercising monopoly power here.

[deleted]

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#413

Post by chpatrick »

mym1990 wrote: post #276
rs999gti wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple fix then, ban reselling. The artist and TM still get the revenue, but the scalper gets inventory they can't move. What about the fans? Similar to airlines, let people buy standby tickets, at the event, check attendance, if there is space let the stand bys in. TM still gets paid twice, scalper has garbage, and fans get in. What about fans who can't go? Buy the insurance at checkout, if you can't go the insuranc…

Instead of banning resale, why not just allow resale at face value? The French open(tennis) does this and makes it possible to still get tickets at a reasonable price up until the day of the event.

In Hungary the best resale platform is TicketSwap and they only allow selling up to 10% or so more than face value, I think that's a good system.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#414

Post by lolinder »

bernawil wrote: post #393
lolinder wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in turn Ticketmaster is the scapegoat that shields the artists from blame. The primary service that Ticketmaster provides is to protect the artist's reputation while ensuring as much money as possible gets made per event.

This take is widespread and it's just wrong. Most artists are hired by organizers and just paid a flat fee for performing, the company then selling and promoting the event. Can you imagine what it'd take to organize an international tour otherwise? Some huge names may also run their own operation (Pearl Jam where notorious for this) but still just some of the time, they'll still do some shows in festivals or differen…

> Most artists are hired by organizers and just paid a flat fee for performing, the company then selling and promoting the event.

This is true, but most artists aren't insanely popular with millions of fans, most artists are little-known gig workers. In this thread we're talking about the big names, which can and do operate by different rules.

The Guardian interviewed several artists in these big tour situations and they say artists get most of each ticket sale, after taxes and royalties (though they obviously also have expenses to pay, so it's not pure profit). If you're claiming otherwise, where does your inside knowledge come from?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jan/30/where-does-con...

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#415

Post by ethanbond »

wodenokoto wrote: post #346
jonhohle wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that it was the best idea, but NIN made you wait in line at the venue during the last tour to buy tickets. I got there early and was still in line for at least 3 hours. When I finally made it to the counter I didn’t have any issue getting the tickets I wanted (floor, general admission). On the one hand, I didn’t have to deal with TicketMaster. On the other hand, it took a significant amount of time out of a Satur…

Last time i went to a big show i arrived more than 3 hours in advance - with tickets in hand. Doesn't sound like you lost any time.

I think this was standing in line on ticket release day, not day of show.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#416

Post by lolinder »

Retric wrote: post #410
lolinder wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at this from a strictly monetary lens, but the entertainment industry lives and dies on reputation. It's worth a lot of money to have someone else take the fall for the inevitable results of high demand. Ticketmaster's one job is to launder the artist's reputation. They find ways to milk the show for more money than fans think is fair and keep a chunk of that extra cash as their fee, which from the art…

That’s a common theory, but artists like Taylor Swift are willing to take the blame and avoid Ticketmaster. Ticketmaster has a monopoly position and is exercising monopoly power here.

Taylor Swift explicitly put the blame on Ticketmaster for the entire 2022 fiasco [0][1]. There was no taking responsibility, and she certainly wasn't avoiding Ticketmaster during that event. If she's avoiding a relationship with them in the future (I can't find any evidence of that), I'd wager it's because of their technical incompetence in handling her volume, not the sale price and the scalpers.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/18/arts/music/taylor-swift-e...

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/18/taylor-swift-slams-outside-e...

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#417

Post by d1sxeyes »

maven29 wrote: post #251
patrickscoleman wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also actual fans sometimes can’t make a show and need to resell their tickets

What is stopping the existence of a refund mechanism there?

Then scalpers have zero risk if they overbuy, encouraging scalpers even more.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#418

Post by mixmastamyk »

Fatnino wrote: post #373
johnnyanmac wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if one of the platforms “cracks down” and makes it harder to buy and sell people will prefer another platform. 1) what other platform? I'm not too intimate with this, but part of the revolt over the Taylor Swift contrversy came from how Ticketmaster as exclusive use to most of the big venues. That seems to be the other half of the issue not talked about in this article. 2) I thought this issue would be as simple as…

Seems to me they could ban resales by making there be a name attached to each ticket. Just like the airlines. You need ID matching your ticket to get into the venue. No more scalpers.

They’re already doing that and it’s disgusting.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#419

Post by bernawil »

lolinder wrote: post #414
bernawil wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take is widespread and it's just wrong. Most artists are hired by organizers and just paid a flat fee for performing, the company then selling and promoting the event. Can you imagine what it'd take to organize an international tour otherwise? Some huge names may also run their own operation (Pearl Jam where notorious for this) but still just some of the time, they'll still do some shows in festivals or differen…

> Most artists are hired by organizers and just paid a flat fee for performing, the company then selling and promoting the event. This is true, but most artists aren't insanely popular with millions of fans, most artists are little-known gig workers. In this thread we're talking about the big names, which can and do operate by different rules. The Guardian interviewed several artists in these big tour situations and…

Man, that article dances around the issue, huh. When I say most I mean arena selling artists. Small time artists don't get their tickets scalped. Ever heard those stories of artists putting silly requests just to make sure the organizers complied their terms to the letter of the contract? That's a tell they're not running their own operation. Sure, some do. But if they're touring internationally or doing festivals they are getting hired.

Source: that's literally what the companies behind lolapaloosa, monsters of rock, et all do.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#420

Post by sn_master »

WBrentWilliams wrote: post #217
sn_master wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many people would take a day off or travel out of town if there's a high risk of not getting a ticket either.

As I said, the idea I posited _is_ impractical. It works fine if your band is playing small clubs and the like, but it admittedly falls apart at scale. I see plenty of technical solutions being proposed. They might even work. Except each one seems to be exclusionary in some way or another at scale. Or they stomp on the tender feelings of libertarians, but I repeat myself.

Don't think small clubs suffer from scalping much if at all. Scalping makes sense when there's enough demand to justify the effort and risk.
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