Live data from Hacker News

The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

twitter.com

411–420 of 767 posts

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if employees are more productive, you would naturally expect all of the benefits of that increased productivity to go to their employers? I'm curious as to your reasoning about why people do anything other than the absolute minimum to receive their paycheck.

I think this is a bit uncharitable

I think it's more than fair to ask, if workers produce more why aren't they compensated more?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#412

It also took fascism way further than Europe, so it kinda balances out.

Lol. Lmao. right wing parties in Europe regularly get 40% of the vote. And they would make Republicans seem like bleeding heart, diverse liberals in comparison. Marine lepen's party regularly calls for not just closing border but sending back uppity french citizens if they are Muslims lol. Europeans online just really like to ignore their own problems, it's almost amazing.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#413
post #340

National debt US 2013 16.83 trillion dollars 2023 32.33 trillion dollars EU 2013 13.19 trillion dollars 2023 14.5 trillion dollars

So, the US grew but kept its GDP to debt ratio relatively similar to Europe's? That's awesome actually.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#415
post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

Technology is sold in US dollars, and prices are mostly the same globally, so yes, food has kept the same, but technology, which drives growth and innovation, is further away. i.e., the Apple Vision Pro will cost twice as much (in GDP terms for what it is worth) to Europeans, reducing the chances of the next big company building on it to be located in Europe.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#416
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one uses PPP for measuring growth, GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled.

" GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. " Still, if PPP GDP increases, with all else being equal (eg. stable population) it would imply the standard of living is increasing. That is why PPP GDP captures a more accurate measure of the real world. Said another way, what truly matters isn't "GDP growth", but changes in purchasing power/quality of life.

> Still, if PPP GDP increases, with all else being equal (eg. stable population) it would imply the standard of living is increasing.

PPP is weird. Many of my costs were higher when living in China since imported things were more expensive, and there were lots of extra taxes to consider. It didn’t feel like I had more PPP except when eating out and consuming services. You definitely can’t use PPP to buy imports.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#417
post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

No one uses PPP for measuring growth, GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled.

GDP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either.

The GDP wa invented by a russian working for US bureau of statistics during the great depression. It was a helpful measure to compare performance of different US evonomic sectors. It favors deficit spending to saving.

It is a very inadequate measure for people wealth in any developed economy.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#418

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

These stats drive me up the wall because the US is more diverse than every single European country . The life expectancy in California is 81 and in Alabama it’s 74. That’s the difference between the UK and like, Latvia. This matters because when you look at these crude aggregate stats, people naively assume that it means that everything is a bit worse but the actual American story is usually more like broad prosperit…

EU has a bunch of states that have been in the Soviet Block not so long ago, even 3 countries from the USSR. This is way more diverse than USA at least as far as the economics go.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#419

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

What's the point of living an extra few years either? I'd rather die at 70 after having lived a healthy life, than 80 and suffered the last 10 years

Just moves the suffering years to 60-70.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still cheaper and sturdier than the cardboard house in USA. European houses typivally made of brivks and mortar. Cant say that in USA. Even 5mil house in San Fra, a significant portions the house is made of wood and drywall. Pounching through American wall is hollywood pastime. Cant find a similar think in other countries hollywood.

I’d like to see a European brick and mortar house survive a Magnitude 8 earthquake, which is a requirement in San Francisco. The US used to have lots of brick and mortar construction, just like Europe. After those buildings were all destroyed by strong earthquakes, they switched to steel and wood, which can survive a strong earthquake. Europe style construction is not allowed in much of the US because it demonstrably…

And yet, most residential construction is basically the same, whether it's going to be built in Palo Alto, upstate NY, Kansas, south Florida or Portland. Most of those don't have anything that even resembles strong earthquake risk.

American housing is built the way it is not due to extra interest in safety, but because it's cheap to build under US prices. You can call it better or worse than Europe, but it sure isn't earthquakes.

Post reply on HN