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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

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Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#411

Post by lucasRW »

Kuinox wrote: post #388
lucasRW wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economically right-leaning but culturally left-leaning, he's let in tens of thousands of migrants, does not expel them (cf. the "OQTF" stories pretty much every day), and on top of that, uses taxpayers money to fund them throughout the country.

You are mixing up stuff to fit your scenario. OQTF stories are up to police incompetence, not lax imposed by the governement. Culturally left-leaning if very bold given the recent pension reform debacle, bypassing any democratic recourse. Also very bold statement given the police repression of mosts of the protests. There is nothing Macron that is left leaning, relative to France politic spectrum.

"not lax imposed by the governement."

>> Interesting. Right-leaning governement (if not "far-right" according to some), but has no control over illegal migrants routinely roaming around committing crimes. I thought a key marker of "the right" was being (too) strict on order and ruthless implementation of the law.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#412

Post by themaninthedark »

pif wrote: post #284
James_bread wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pif, your messages here align mostly with authoritarianism and fascism. You don't seem to care about people their freedom, their rights or real democracy. It's not a minority that holds the country hostage it's a minority who have the balls to standup against a small elite who have all power. Having to pick out of two evils has nothing to do with democracy.

> our messages here align mostly with authoritarianism and fascism If you want to call "authoritarianism" the basic rule of law (as in: do not block traffic, do not prevent shops from opening, do not prevent public offices from offering their services...) you are welcome. By the way, a pet peeve of mine, having always voted for the centre-left, I never appreciated how authoritarianism is generally considered an expre…

So, how does that mesh with the BLM protests that took place across the US?

Here we have "fiery but peaceful protests" but in France it is a fundamental breakdown of the rule of law?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#413

Post by pif »

hbt wrote: post #344
pif wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they came for violent people preventing other pacific people to move on with their life, nobody needed to speak because their actions were against the law.

Will you be celebrating the 14th of July buddy? Or will you be condemning the act of 633 angry French citizens "storming the Bastille in Paris, capturing its munitions, releasing its seven prisoners, lynching the governor and demolishing the fortress". After all, they broke the law and since it's the law then clearly the government had full legitimacy... right? Next, you should be defending the "Code Noir" https://en…

Your examples do not involve people living in a democracy with universal right to vote.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#414

Post by mytailorisrich »

HourglassFR wrote: post #409
mytailorisrich wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Le Pen is not "as far-right as it gets" and neither is Zemmour. Melenchon is very left-wing, started as a Trostkist and is good friend Venezuela's Maduro, against the capitalist system, etc. So if you think Le Pen is extreme on one side then Melenchon has to be equally extreme on the other side.

> Melenchon […] started as a Trostkist So did more than half of the socialist party elit (elephant du PS), even freaking Cambadelis, are you suggesting he’s far left to ? > against the capitalist system Well yes, almost by definition of being on the left I would argue. > So if you think Le Pen is extreme on one side then Melenchon has to be equally extreme on the other side. No, this is a false equivalence. I mean th…

The socialist party effectively no longer exists because its right wing has been absorbed by Macron and its left wing by Melenchon and friends. So now we're left with a large effectively far left group with Melenchon, Communist Party, LFI, etc.

My take on left-wing politics since the 1990s is that the fall of Communist/Solialist countries has made the old agenda difficult to sell so it's rehashed, repackaged, but at its core it's still the same. We've also seen that in the UK with Corbyn and McDonnell.

One thing in France is that it is usually better viewed to be far on the left than far on the right. For instance, the Communist Party are almost seen as nice guys these days...

Another point is that you do not explain why Le Pen is more extremist than Melenchon/LFI, etc.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#415

Post by jacquesm »

hnbad wrote: post #403
jacquesm wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2/3rds of AfD supporters claim to be doing it as a protest vote. You don't vote for proto fascists as a protest vote. Especially not when you're German.

Well, you do, but not if you don't already find their views palatable. There is a large undercurrent of reactionary hateful views in German politics that usually hides behind the fig leaf of "conservatism" but has become more visible thanks to parties like CSU openly copying AfD talking points and "liberal" media being unequipped to handle them in any other way than giving them a platform and hoping that the "marketp…

Factually correct as far as I can tell. Painful though. I've met some Germans of 'a certain age' in the 80's and none of them ever owned up to what they were up to during the war. Also a good number of them claimed to be Swiss but turned out to be Germans after all. Lots of whitewashing there.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#416

Post by Arkhaine_kupo »

denton-scratch wrote: post #408
Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean the worst of several options? The law is the law, if it's unfair it gets changed. Having the judge "making it up" as he goes, and then another judge using that sentence 120 years later as precedent like in american courts sounds insane

The law, as it's written down, often fails to match closely the particular circumstances of a specific case. Maybe it never gives an exact match. So judges and juries have to interpret the law. That's the reality, whatever legal system you have. "Precedent" is a way of saving the time of courts and lawyers, by not having to argue the same details every time they come up. And it's not as if every court judgement becom…

All of that is easy to contemplate. You have extenuating and aggravating circumstances (things that make the situation worse or better for the defendant)

And on top of that you have a window for sentencing. So if murder is lets say 4-20 years in jail. And you were drunk, that makes it worse, but it was not premeditated, and this and that it all adds up and you might 6 years or you might get 18 depending on the circumstances.

This also allows the law to be rewritten from scratch instead of being based on whatever higher court thought in the 1800s.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#417

Post by nestorD »

sofixa wrote: post #17

As others have mentioned, context matters a lot. The arrested group came back from Syria (where they fought alongside YPG against ISIS) radicalised, and were monitored ever since then. Their alleged crime isn't using Signal, it's just that a French anti-terrorism law allows to be arrested for "organisation with the intent to commit terrorist acts", which the DGSI(internal intelligence services) claims a radicalised g…

> they were monitoring them for years, so who the hell knows what else they have

Given the weakness of the elements assembled, why would the DGSI decide to withhold any decisive proof from the eyes of the justice system?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#418

Post by formerly_proven »

hnbad wrote: post #403
jacquesm wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2/3rds of AfD supporters claim to be doing it as a protest vote. You don't vote for proto fascists as a protest vote. Especially not when you're German.

Well, you do, but not if you don't already find their views palatable. There is a large undercurrent of reactionary hateful views in German politics that usually hides behind the fig leaf of "conservatism" but has become more visible thanks to parties like CSU openly copying AfD talking points and "liberal" media being unequipped to handle them in any other way than giving them a platform and hoping that the "marketp…

Police and justice in particular were largely unscathed by "denazification". People like the fervent nazi anti-semite Willi Geiger, who was among other things a Special Prosecutor at a Special Nazi Court (with a death toll, having personally pressed and seen to the public execution of an 18yo suspected gay among other people), went on to preside at the supreme court and later became the longest serving federal constitutional judge of germany and also leaked all court internals to the adenauer government, are just the tip of a very brown ice berg.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#419

Post by PartiallyTyped »

lugu wrote: post #404
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antenas can ping your location and track your movements. There's nothing you can fake here.

Put your device in front of a vertical metallic plan and have it vertically rotating slowly. You are now walking around your house. Wouldn't this work?

Walking around your house isn’t evading anyone or anything, and it’d be too periodic.

You need wider range, more chaos, but mainly consistent spoofed behaviour.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#420

Post by Beldin »

pif wrote: post #215
beremaki wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gilets jaunes or blocking whatever have anything to do with violating parliamentary rights ? Or making protests of disappointment (edit: disapproval) illegal everywhere the president go ? What can anyone do about a president that abuses its power ? This is a basic democratic issue and I am pessimistic because a lot of people like you just don't seem to get it, so we won't address that and when it is going to be…

> making protests of disappointment illegal everywhere the president go France is big enough. Having to avoid a few square kilometres around the president will leave you plenty of space to organize your protest.

You mean like "free speech zones" - which seems to be defined as zones in the US where you do have freedom of speech. (Yes, I'm wondering "what about the rest of the land area" as well.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

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