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The Never Married, a New Normal

psychologytoday.com

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#411

Post by [deleted] »

ameminator wrote: post #90
throwaway1492 wrote: post #49

I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give…

I can sacrifice my ego through meditation and acts of charity/volunteer work. No need to risk half of my current assets and future income on the whims of some potentially capricious other person, who probably doesn't like me very much anyways. Good luck to you, however.

[deleted]

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#412

Post by midoridensha »

bscphil wrote: post #347
midoridensha wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but maybe consider the possibility that others are getting something valuable out of this that you've missed? Of course some people are getting something valuable. Marriage works out great for some people, and of course those people are happy to tell the world how great marriage is because it worked out so well for them. For other people, however, it's a complete disaster. Basically, marriage is a huge gamble. The o…

> If you win, great, but there's a huge potential to lose, big. There's a reason the divorce rate is so high Divorce isn't the same thing as "losing big". The latter is a relatively rare occurrence, which can happen when the relationship is very one-sided (one spouse makes 10x the income of the other spouse), and one spouse is extremely mean and vindictive. Plenty of couples separate amicably. Plenty of couples separ…

The downside, in America at least, is not just losing some of your wealth. It's becoming truly impoverished and becoming homeless. Remember, America is a country where you can easily go from solidly middle-class to utterly bankrupt because of one medical problem. The stakes couldn't be much higher, unless they institute a death penalty for divorcing.

>I've been with my partner for over a decade, and we're not "married".

That kind of long-term trial isn't feasible once you're past your 20s, if you (or the woman) wants to have kids.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#413

Post by lisasays »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #13
jitl wrote: post #10

My partner and I have been together for 7 years, we bought a house together, haven’t found a compelling reason to get married. Marriage is a complex and binding contract that for two high earners is a tax disadvantage. The most prominent benefits I’ve learned are some situations around visitation rights, and avoiding being compelled to testify against your spouse. It comes from a very dubious history of the husband e…

Married people report significantly higher levels of happiness/life satisfaction in the middle and later stages of life than non married people. This is a durable finding across many studies.

Right, but those benefits come from being in stable, committed partnership with an awesome person. What the poster above is saying is that one can also have essentially all the benefits of a strong partnership (the ones that really matter, anyway), sans marriage.

As for benefits that don't matter so much I count things like societal approval, "doing what my parents always wanted", etc. Which matter for some, but certainly not for all.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#415

Post by Dalewyn »

hiatus wrote: post #360
Dalewyn wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The true answer is that a dysfunctional marriage negatively affects any children period. If the would-be parents can't reasonably guarantee a happy household going forward, having children is the epitome of irresponsiblity.

> If the would-be parents can't reasonably guarantee a happy household going forward, having children is the epitome of irresponsiblity. Who can do this? Who can possibly guarantee anything about the future, especially when it involves other people?

It should be reasonably possible to ascertain whether you and your spouse will have a pleasant or unpleasant future. If the latter, why the fuck (pun intended) would you have children?

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#416

Post by ozfive »

anonzzzies wrote: post #264
ozfive wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until your partner decides one day that they no longer are going to abide by that trust and find someone else, raid the joint account, the investments, and sell things right from under you which they are allowed to do with no repercussions due to the marriage according to the government and on top of it disappear with the children. Trust me from experience. You may think you know someone until they up and change on y…

I am 50 and I have never met anyone who had this actually happen. I have seen messy divorces, but money was never stolen like that and the change was never overnight (everyone of their friends saw it coming, every time, usually since day one, but it’s pointless to warn people in love… and after that usually kids). Then again, I don’t live in the US; people here (or maybe it’s just my circle) are less pre occupied wit…

Count your friends and loved ones lucky in that sense. It certainly happened to me and am still recovering from it 2 years later.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#417

Post by ozfive »

sizzle wrote: post #283
ozfive wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until your partner decides one day that they no longer are going to abide by that trust and find someone else, raid the joint account, the investments, and sell things right from under you which they are allowed to do with no repercussions due to the marriage according to the government and on top of it disappear with the children. Trust me from experience. You may think you know someone until they up and change on y…

Sign a pre-nup

This is the best advice now considering how brutal divorce can be. If someone says they aren't about money then you can find the truth out very quickly by making that expectation clear.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#418

Post by ozfive »

zarzavat wrote: post #267
ozfive wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until your partner decides one day that they no longer are going to abide by that trust and find someone else, raid the joint account, the investments, and sell things right from under you which they are allowed to do with no repercussions due to the marriage according to the government and on top of it disappear with the children. Trust me from experience. You may think you know someone until they up and change on y…

The mixing of finances can be traced back to coverture where the wife lost legal personhood upon marriage. In that case the wife was not able to own property in her own name. This doctrine developed into the various marital property laws we have today. Of course the wife no longer loses legal personhood, but the married couple itself still retains a kind of legal personhood, a couple can own property jointly, and whe…

This is a great overview of the out of sync cultural shifts in the Western World, particularly the U.S. I wasn't aware of cultural norms around marriage in the Middle East. I'll be sure to read more on it.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#419

Post by noirbot »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #277
jdrbc wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law accounts for roommates by defining the nature of the relationship. Cohabitation for a certain period isn't the full definition. The definition does not allow for more than 2 people in the relationship.

Actually I think the laws in BC are becoming more progressive with nonmonogamous arrangements. I think there was a case recently where a judge split custody of a child between three people who were romantically involved, cohabitating, and raising the child. But generally you would only be considered common law in BC if you're in a conjugal relationship. In practice, if that becomes a point of contention (and I don't…

Yea, I've always found even the more progressive legal systems to be such that they're often, reasonably, less loose than most progressive cultures. I was discussing this with folks recently about Canada's proposed asylum class for trans/nonbinary folks.

There's obviously folks who neatly fall into either category, just like how three people who live together and have a communal sexual relationship could be neatly considered to be "married" to each other in a legal sense. It all gets more complicated on the edges though. How not-commited to your assigned-at-birth gender do you have to be to count as nonbinary in a legal sense? If I live with one person in a committed relationship, but also have a relationship with 4 other people I don't live with, how often do I have to see them before they have a claim on me? It only gets more complex when you consider asexual people, who may have many close emotional relationships with no real strong "ranking" or "best friend" or "partner".

It's much easier to just "do the reasonable thing" when it's your friends and there's only a few and much harder when it's the government having to intermediate a divorce, or child custody, or the option to have your partner immigrate.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#420

Post by midoridensha »

ux-app wrote: post #408
midoridensha wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>marriage is a great way to de-risk many aspects of your life. 2x income for only 1.3x increased expenses Then what happens when you get married, and your spouse soon quits their job or is fired because they're a terrible employee, and you didn't see signs of this while dating? Now you have 1.3x expenses on 1x income. Worse, what if your spouse is terrible at money management? Now you have 2-3x expenses on 1-2x incom…

that's a lot of what ifs. we don't live in the 50s any more. My wife and I were living together for 8 years before we got married. That sure would have been one doozy of a long con if she turned around and suddenly became a totally different person once the ink dried on the marriage certificate. Picking the right person is not the same as buying a lottery ticket, lol.

An 8-year trial run is completely unrealistic for most couples, especially if they want to have kids.
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