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When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

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Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#411

Post by karaterobot »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #388

I'm not really a fan of ChatGPT, I think it's overhyped and oversold, and very fundamentally limited. But I also completely disagree with his take, it's too broad and sweeping. Offloading some cognitive load does not suddenly make people stupider. It just means that their focus can go elsewhere. Nor do tools that abstract away some processes. A good example is driving. Does a manual transmission require more focus an…

> Offloading some cognitive load does not suddenly make people stupider. It just means that their focus can go elsewhere. Nor do tools that abstract away some processes.

Agreed, but so much depends on where that focus goes instead. Whatever you do instead of writing is going to be what you improve at, while those other skills atrophy. That thing you spend focus on could be thinking deeply about abstract concepts, or composing sonnets, but it could also be mindlessly scrolling TikTok. Whether you ultimately buy Graham's thesis here depends on what you think the most likely outcome is.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#412

Post by d23 »

ericmcer wrote: post #409
rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

Try coding in a language/style you are not familiar with. It is not revolutionary for areas you specialize in, but if I try using it for something like setting up a web scraper with python (something I understand conceptually but have never done) it feels pretty amazing. My one concern is that if I use it for JS I can immediately spot issues with it, but I am too ignorant of python to spot subtle problems.

It’s definitely awesome for that, but for me, on side projects even in languages I’m familiar with, getting ChatGPT to write the boring annoying stuff, or things that would require a bit of referencing (like a library I’ve not completely memorized), I’ve still found it to be pretty useful.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#413

Post by d23 »

vagab0nd wrote: post #369
rcme wrote: post #14

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same ChatGPT as everyone else. I pay for GPT4 access in ChatGPT, and it is a really terrible writer. I also pay for Copilot, and I think a can count the number of times it has been helpful with one hand. I'm trying to get on this hype train, but I'm left with an empty feeling every time I try to seriously spend some time with these new tools.

No offense but you are almost certainly using it wrong. Consider the following: 1. Use it when you know how to do something but don't want to. 2. Use it when you don't know something, and don't know how to find the answer. 3. Never trust. Verify. Clearly, this means the examples that impress others will often not impress you.

It’s very difficult for me to wrap my head around people that aren’t blown away by both this and generative image AIs, and I tend to be in the skeptical side when it comes to fancy tech adoption.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#414

Post by DoreenMichele »

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #398
Zetice wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I misunderstood the situation. Apologies.

The level of mature, respectful, civil discourse on HN never ceases to impress me. I see this less and less on other discussion boards.

I've never actually seen its equal anywhere else.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#417

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

chasing wrote: post #407

Writing is thinking. You do it as much for yourself as you do your readers and having to put effort into it is how you realize gains. Like strength training. Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you. It'd be like buying a robot to go to the gym and move weights up and down — sorta misses the point. (Before I get the usual sorts of replies: I'm not talking about writing boilerplate or marketin…

I made a up a word to differentiate the boilerplate/canned/whatever activity to the personal-growth oriented one:

----

Righting. verb.

1. writing to change the way the world is oriented

> I resolve to continue righting until the wrongs go away.

2. writing to change the way oneself is oriented

> I resolve to continue righting until I'm not wrong anymore.

----

Ambiguity in usage being more or less the point.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#418

Post by euroderf »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #50

This reads like Plato's warning (through Socrates' words) 2,400 years ago that writing will make people forgetful: "For this invention [writing] will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have inven…

So like, if writing is one of many extensions of man, then Plato is an anti-McLuhan.

Re: When you lose the ability to write, you also lose some of your ability to think

#419

Post by BrianHenryIE »

ancount wrote: post #338
marttt wrote: post #246

"I warn you now, this is going to have unfortunate consequences, just as switching to living in suburbia and driving everywhere did." -- This is a really good comparison by pg. If anything, it will be a sneaky change in human behaviour for most people. Everything seems fine, and then you suddenly realize living without that AI "crutch" is simply too hard .

Would you be willing to explain how that comparison makes any sense at all? How is living in a city "too hard" for people in suburban and rural communities?

Here's an earlier tweet of his lamenting what has been taken away from children by the rising dominance of cars in society, a function of suburban living:

https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1656249684300640259

The growth of suburbs had plenty of drawbacks. Many people will argue they "need a car", aka the price of entry to modern society is thousands of dollars.

Transport is ~28% of US GHGs. But there's no quick and easy way to rebuild cities to facilitate most people getting to where they need to go quickly and cheaply by transit and walking/biking.

There's lots to say on it, but I'm not a great writer!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-seniors-driving-id...

https://jalopnik.com/what-i-mean-when-i-say-ban-cars-1849122...

https://www.amazon.com/Suburban-Nation-Sprawl-Decline-Americ...

https://twitter.com/bancars4life

https://www.facebook.com/groups/whatwouldjanejacobsdo/

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