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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#411

Post by Rekksu »

screye wrote: post #300
cemerick wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I'm "championing" (just pointing out, really) is that certain populations seem to enjoy using anecdotal tragedy to promote their own quasi-apocalyptic worldview re: some American cities, despite all available data contradicting that worldview. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the update on your locale, and your own stories of property crime and/or non-criminal (yet perhaps unnerving?) personal intera…

On the other hand, I feel like it takes an incredibly public tragedy for a platform for HN to tolerate any discussions around SF crime. People want to talk about crime, drugs & homelessness all the time. It is only in high profile cases where the issues seem topical, that HN can't discourage discussion around them. > quasi-apocalyptic worldview re: some American cities I don't see why speaking out about lack of polic…

What does "SF crime" have to do with the content that is expected on hackernews?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#412

Post by hyperhello »

pm_me_your_quan wrote: post #309
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

That's clearly not enough. Tech executives are doing too many drugs and it's leading to this kind of behavior, it's a cultural problem. They need fewer broken families and more time spent in church. And these rotten ones they need to be under constant watch by strict, controlling wardens.

Have you considered that the media has jumped to a framing of tech-on-tech crime at the behest of the powerful Big Homeless lobby? When was the last time you saw anyone but a homeless person sleeping in newspapers.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#413

Post by fintechjock »

projectazorian wrote: post #366
reddog wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including current faves Austin and Miami Austin has 2.57 murders and nonnegligent manslaughters per 100K. Same year, SF has 6.35 per 100K. So SF is twice as bad as Austin. Your right about Miami though. But 6.35 isn't bad. The murder rate in St Louis (for comparision to the US city with the worst) is 66.07 per 100K. And Colima Mexico (worst in the world maybe) is 182 murders per 100K. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Also worth noting that SF contains most of the Bay Area’s high-crime areas, yet the city limits are much smaller than those of most major American cities. So that skews the crime rate upwards. There’s a similar dynamic at play with several other American cities.

If the argument is that SF is high crime because of policy decisions, then the line drawing doesn’t matter

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#414

Post by anonymouskimmer »

cameronfraser wrote: post #377
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

no because there isn't a pattern of tech execs doing this

How do you know? What's the general rate of murderers, and what's the rate of tech exec murderers?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#415

Post by nilespotter »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

[dead]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#416

Post by asveikau »

asynchronous wrote: post #211
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

I don’t understand why it can’t be both: SF is degenerating when it comes to random crime AND this murder wasn’t by some random thug. I remember reading blog after blog on HN about people moving out of SF specifically for what the city had become.

The nature of the random crime is very different from violent crime. People were saying violent crime is the issue, and here was the proof, the turning point. All demonstrably false.

You point out the falsity and people call you naive and say it's the crime stats that are wrong, not their take. Their version is reality.

As a San Francisco resident, I don't want us wasting time, energy and resources going after the wrong problems.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#418

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

bnralt wrote: post #247
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

It’s interesting. The initial post that mentioned that Rob Lee was murdered got mass flagged and stayed at the bottom of the page. There’s discussion about his murder and crime in general, but the top comment is asking people not to be political and to post their memories of Rob Lee. The only submission about Rob Lee’s death that stayed at the top of the page was one that didn’t mention that he was murdered in the he…

That's absolutely not what happened. This, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899, was the original post that got a lot of traction about Bob Lee's death. I was one of the people who flagged it pretty early on, not because I thought it wasn't newsworthy, but because it was one of the biggest collection of dumpster fire comments I've ever seen on HN - hardly anyone was interested in anything but spouting their own preconceived notions, particularly since at that point very few details were actually known about the crime.

But as you can see from that link and the vote counts, it was definitely (pretty quickly) unflagged, and then you can see in the top comments that dang just split the threads into 2 separate posts, one for rememberances of Bob Lee and the other one remained for political discussion.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#419

Post by dgs_sgd »

rchaud wrote: post #331
stickfigure wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! You'll just get your stuff stolen and your car vandalized!" I wouldn't feel so smug about that. I lived in SF for ~15 years, experienced multiple car breakins (when I had a car) and one weird guy who walked up to me on the street and said "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" (which I somehow calmly ignored). For the record, I didn't com…

> It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! Steven Pinker has made a career out of this. Ironically a lot of his adherents are quick to jump on the "this is the safest time in human history" statistical warbling when discussing an issue they feel doesn't personally affect them.

Steven Pinker made claims about humanity as a whole. We can definitely be in the safest period in human history while at the same time having some cities that are pretty dangerous

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#420

Post by tempsy »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

What was more incredible was being accused of being a conspiracy theorist because I had commented in the SF subreddit and on twitter that I personally didn’t think it was random.
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