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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#411

Post by sbuk »

superjan wrote: post #279
api wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS devices are not "real" computers. They're more comparable to game consoles or TV set top boxes. They're special purpose computing devices that can only run approved software. Apple does sell real computers under the Mac line.

This is, in a way, both a statement of fact as well as sarcastic. There is a whole range of computer systems, from very open, general purpose, to closed. Apple thinks phones are closed special purpose systems, but like the OP, many of us don’t.

Many of who? I'd wager that the us in this case is an extremely small, but drastically loud group of individuals.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#412

Post by ewhanley »

randyrand wrote: post #312

> frees up a programmer's mental resources and enables her Am I the only one that found it weird to assign a gender to "a programmer". 'Him' & 'her' are both weird sounding. It should be 'them'. I appreciate they're trying to be woke, but it falls flat.

A writer can't win these days. People get all worked up about they/them, too. Not all writing needs to be parsed through a political lens.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#413

Post by vineyardmike »

worksonmine wrote: post #362
a4isms wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you feel around the margins, you can find exceptions for everything. e.g. You can cook a fish in a dishwasher. But while anyone can modify a toaster to do wild things, they aren't designed to facilitate that and it isn't a mainstream thing to hack your toaster. PCs are hackable by design. It's a perfectly mainstream thing to build your own PC from parts. Hacking toasters, on the other hand, is not mainstream. Best…

I think a better analogy for the toaster would be blocking people from heating their waffles or fish sticks in it. And Apple takes it even further than limiting it to bread, it's only meant for gluten-free slices from San Fransisco. Anything else and you void your warranty. Also the cord stops working every 2 years.

Not to really beat an analogy to death, but a better comparison is Keurig. Its a coffee machine that JustWorks (tm) precisely because it packages up all the "hard parts" in custom stuff. If you buy their pods, you can just toss it in and its good. If you want to use your own coffee.. you need a custom pod that can accept coffee grinds, you need to refill it every time, etc. If you want to make espresso with steamed milk.. you basically can't use a Keurig. No one can really sell Keurig pods without a license, and they used to actively try and keep you from using unlicensed pods.

I have an espresso machine, and you need to calibrate the pressure, the temperature, clean all the parts regularly (far more than a pod machine), you need to fill the coffee grinds in a way that is distributed so the water runs evenly, you need a coffee grinder that makes less-coarse grinds, etc... its far more work, but the coffee is exactly how I like it.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#414

Post by klondike_klive »

JohnFen wrote: post #393
rebeccaskinner wrote: post #198

My honest question is: What's the alternative. I'm not an apple fan. Most of my personal devices run Linux, but I feel essentially trapped on an iPhone. It doesn't seem like there's a truly useful open phone out there. I don't like Apple, and I don't trust them or their ostensibly pro-privacy stance much, but I want as little privacy invasion and as little advertising as possible on my phone, and I think as bad as Ap…

This is what I'll be doing. There are no smartphones on the market that I feel comfortable with trusting, even a little, so I'll be shifting to using a dumbphone instead, and also carrying a real, honest-to-goodness pocket computer that doesn't have a cell phone attached to it. The phone will be used for exchanging calls and texts. The computer for everything else.

Which pocket computer would you choose? Out of interest.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#415

Post by ta3564664 »

danaris wrote: post #333
poulsbohemian wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But Jobs never lost his vision that Apple should sell appliances, and people who wanted to "wrench their own devices" should buy PCs. You present an excellent historical case of how Apple got here, but here's where I see a dichotomy: Back in the day, tools like RezEdit, Hypercard, AppleScript came included. There were countless "apps" to reconfigure how the Mac looked and felt to create a personalized experience. Av…

And these days, every Mac comes with a full Unix terminal built-in. Xcode is a free download (remember, if you wanted to develop Macintosh applications back in the day, you had to buy something like CodeWarrior!), and, as you say, they've developed Swift Playgrounds specifically to make a nicer onramp for people interested in developing their own stuff. It's never been trivial to configure the Mac in terms of things…

Even though its now probably 20+ years old, the CodeWarrior experience was vastly superior to XCode.

For a company with Apple's budget, XCode is a disgrace.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#416

Post by KoftaBob »

causi wrote: post #288
sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. Yep. One of the most glaring examples of this is the complete extinction of portable backups. Back when I was carrying around a PDA I could plug it in, hit one button, and have a total backup of everything on my device. Plug a blank device in, hit one button, and everything is restored. Today if you want a bulletproof de…

> 10mb/s upstream

Let me guess, Xfinity?

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#417

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

sbuk wrote: post #403
fragmede wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's for signed apps. Totally unsigned apps can't be run without additional work.

The OP literally described the process for opening unsigned apps.

Didn't it change with Apple Silicon? That requires everything to be signed, albeit not necessarily by Apple.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#418

Post by anonymouse008 »

danaris wrote: post #333
poulsbohemian wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But Jobs never lost his vision that Apple should sell appliances, and people who wanted to "wrench their own devices" should buy PCs. You present an excellent historical case of how Apple got here, but here's where I see a dichotomy: Back in the day, tools like RezEdit, Hypercard, AppleScript came included. There were countless "apps" to reconfigure how the Mac looked and felt to create a personalized experience. Av…

And these days, every Mac comes with a full Unix terminal built-in. Xcode is a free download (remember, if you wanted to develop Macintosh applications back in the day, you had to buy something like CodeWarrior!), and, as you say, they've developed Swift Playgrounds specifically to make a nicer onramp for people interested in developing their own stuff. It's never been trivial to configure the Mac in terms of things…

I’m fleshing out these thoughts more in a longer form - but I think Jobs was heading the company into the abyss with the appliance model.

If it weren’t for the AppStore, it would’ve been the end of Apple. The iPhone wasn’t released with it at the outset - because this “make your own” wasn’t a part of the ethos. The Mac also suffered tremendously with no love to Final Cut, snipping Aperture, and leaving the hardware to bit rot for the longest.

iPod was a hugely profitable windfall and iPhone was too - somehow the AppStore slipped in there and became the lone remaining ember that reignited the hacker mindset - Swift I believe is that true rekindling; everything else follows M series, OSX continuities, etc

I’m starting to rethink everything I thought I knew.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#419

Post by a4isms »

ta3564664 wrote: post #415
danaris wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And these days, every Mac comes with a full Unix terminal built-in. Xcode is a free download (remember, if you wanted to develop Macintosh applications back in the day, you had to buy something like CodeWarrior!), and, as you say, they've developed Swift Playgrounds specifically to make a nicer onramp for people interested in developing their own stuff. It's never been trivial to configure the Mac in terms of things…

Even though its now probably 20+ years old, the CodeWarrior experience was vastly superior to XCode. For a company with Apple's budget, XCode is a disgrace.

Oh maaaaaahn, do I remember Metrowerks CodeWarrior[1] fondly! Thank you for bringing it up. I also remember using Lightspeed C, which later became Think C.[2]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodeWarrior

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THINK_C

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#420

Post by neon_electro »

causi wrote: post #288
sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. Yep. One of the most glaring examples of this is the complete extinction of portable backups. Back when I was carrying around a PDA I could plug it in, hit one button, and have a total backup of everything on my device. Plug a blank device in, hit one button, and everything is restored. Today if you want a bulletproof de…

Why aren't you backing up locally? You clearly speak like you're used to it "back when you were carrying around a PDA".
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