Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Meta created pyTorch
Tensorflow FTW
Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
411–420 of 674 posts
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#412I've never worked for a truly large company, so maybe I lack perspective. But the idea that a company could incorrectly hire THOUSANDS of people over a few years boggles my small-company mind. Hiring is so exhausting, so time intensive and so boring . And it does nothing (directly) for the bottom line - instead it costs a ton of money! Given the ultra-mega-hyper-elaborate interview process at a lot of these companies…
Maybe the 80/20 rule applies here: 80% of consequences come from 20% of causes (or employees in this case).
The problem is, that you can never be quite sure which 20% to keep and which 80% to fire.
Big budgets allowed companies to play it safe. Not anymore, it seems.
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
> this is the usual name I dunno if it's just me, but it seems like the term came out of nowhere just a couple years ago.
I've been hearing it for about 5-7 years now, usually in the context of career paths. I think it became popular when companies realized that non all developers are made for management and you need a separate career track for people who want to advance, but don't want to be a manager. Principal engineer, architect, etc all fall into the IC career path, while, manager, director, VP of eng, etc all fall into the managem…
principal eng, architect et al must rely on managing devs for any meaningful project.
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can tell you from experience that you are going to suck at both. As a code contributor, you’re not going to be able to keep your commitments because of management responsibility and as a manager you’re not going to have time to do either career development for your team or be in the room to play politics for your team. The only time that I’ve seen that work is when my former CTO would do non production code as a re…
You are 100% correct. I manage a team now that I don't really have time to guide and am probably stricter with them than I need to be because of it. Additionally I am constantly behind on my deliverables to Sr. leadership because I don't have time to focus on the constant flow of busy work they keep giving me because they need data for some report to their leaders. I have no one that I can delegate this work too. I'm…
If anyone ever asks me "I want to burn out as fast as possible, what should I do?" I will send them the link to your comment.
Jokes aside, I think that I had very similar experience, and it does lead to burnout
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
It has been in common use for at least 15, if not 20 years. Very common phrase in the tech industry.
i have worked in tech for over 40 years at all levels and, as i said, i have never come across the term before today.
By "tech industry", a lot of people here tend to mean internet ad companies and/or startups designed to be acquired by them.
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
But if you were CEO and you wanted to, how would you engineer the incentives such that actually productive managers succeeded? Or is there something about corporate structure that makes it impossible?
I know HN hates him, but Elon Musk has figured this out and that's why he will always deliver outstanding returns compared to others.
> outstanding returns compared to others.
Like this? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jan/03/twitter-s...
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
How exactly has he figured this out? I see an egomaniac that drives his employees as if they're just cogs in a machine.
I think both you and the GP are missing the essence of what Elon is. He is neither an amazing operator and businessman, nor is he a slave driving demon. He does have a huge ego and need for attention, I'll give you that, but fundamentally he is someone who cares more about solving big problems than he does about money or people. The push to deify or villify him is all about satisfying ones own judgement, but personal…
Not sure.
He seems like a ‘slave driving demon’. Best example how he treated the folks at Twitter or his other companies… demanding ‘hardcore’ hours and exactly like you said… he doesn’t care about people… doesn’t care whether they burn out or creating a culture where bullying is accepted.
I don’t think he really cares about solving big problems, it’s just a front to feed his big ego… he wants be seen as real life Tony Stark.
If he really cared about solving big problems like the climate crisis etc he wouldn’t have wasted his time with Twitter.
He wouldn’t have come with a stupid idea like the hyperloop and trying to derail a high speed rail project.
What he has achieved is he inspired more people to become engineers and problem solvers and have a positive vision of the future. But his big ego and narcissistic traits have ruined it and more and more folks see what he really is.
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
But if you were CEO and you wanted to, how would you engineer the incentives such that actually productive managers succeeded? Or is there something about corporate structure that makes it impossible?
I know HN hates him, but Elon Musk has figured this out and that's why he will always deliver outstanding returns compared to others.
So the tactic is stock market manipulation and PR?
You can't do it, but you can fool idiots on the internet that you can!
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#419It's too bad, because the best managers I've worked with were not good ICs, but they did multiply the effectiveness of the ICs they worked with, and so were absolutely invaluable to the company in a way that may not have shown up on paper. If those people exist in FB, as I'm sure they must, then they'd presumably get jettisoned as a result of this choice. That would be bad long term. I used to despise managers, until…
Any traits to identify these people? I am a massive sufferer of imposter syndrome, I do my best to help everyone and smooth over things and set direction in a clear way with as much freedom in execution as possible. but i am always second guessing myself. I know I am almost certainly a middling manager (if not a bad one), but I would like to improve. Not because I love doing it, but because I don't trust that anyone…
The distinguishing factor I've seen is servant leadership [1].
They believe that supporting and developing their people is their main job. Execution is just a prerequisite to being able to do the rest.
Re: Meta to ask many managers to become individual contributors or leave
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
Others have answered what the words "IC" mean, but let me add that this is the usual name for the technical career track, i.e. the not-management track, meant for people who do not want to manage teams of people. Strictly speaking, the roles of Engineer Manager and IC are incompatible; you cannot want to manage people and at the same time want to stay out of it. So in this particular context, "EM+IC" is a misnomer fo…
> this is the usual name I dunno if it's just me, but it seems like the term came out of nowhere just a couple years ago.
Same; I saw an interview with Steve Jobs in the 80s or 90s where he used it. I was surprised.