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Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

economist.com

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Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#411

Post by throwaway894345 »

filoleg wrote: post #362
throwaway894345 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it would just integrate with airplay (and whatever the Android equivalent is) then Tesla wouldn’t need to support a one-off application for every streaming service.

You don't need a one-off application for every streaming service, those are there in case you want to use them without phone at all. Bluetooth audio is a thing, and you can stream whatever audio you want from your phone to your car audio using that.

> You don't need a one-off application for every streaming service, those are there in case you want to use them without phone at all

I agree. That's why it doesn't make sense that Tesla is approaching it as "bespoke or bust".

> Bluetooth audio is a thing, and you can stream whatever audio you want from your phone to your car audio using that.

Yes, but "streaming a single audio track (with low audio quality)" is pretty much all BlueTooth is fit for, and the problem is much larger than that--a luxury car should be able to stream higher quality audio and it should also be able to stream video (e.g., HBO, Paramount Plus, etc). Moreover, it should facilitate a media browsing experience through the touch screen. First of all, it's limited to audio--it doesn't help me stream HBO or Paramount or any other video service.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#412

Post by myko »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #331
DustinBrett wrote: post #327

I don't own a Tesla or stock cause I am poor, but I believe in Tesla and a lot of what Elon Musk has said in the past. I thought the Giga Factory idea was great. The Cyber Truck actually looks cool to me, mostly cause it's futuristic and different. I also don't think Elon cares that much if the stock goes down, as long as he is able to move forward with his vision, which hopefully he is able to do, because if I were…

What would it take to shake your beliefs? You of course can think whatever you want, but it seems to me that many people, myself included, once felt like you do about Tesla and Musk. But for many of us, his actions over the past several years have caused me to adjust our perspective. I no longer believe he has good intentions, or will deliver on most of what he promises. I wouldn’t buy a Tesla at this point, and I de…

I'm in this boat. I've been happy overall with my Model S purchase but compared to luxury car makers it is overpriced and nowhere near as good. The best thing about owning a Tesla in the US is the Supercharger network.

Things that turned me off:

- Many times under warranty getting stupid things repaired that were clearly manufacturing problems or just boneheaded mistakes when putting the car together. Crazy for a $102k automobile. - Once warranty wore off ran into an issue where the car warned me it might not start again and it needed service immediately. Tesla scheduled my service 2 weeks out and charged me $1000, for something that when I googled it was a common problem and that the service center told me wasn't something I had done. At this point I was pretty frustrated. - Elon's antics: when he called one of the heroes who rescued those kids from the cave a pedo to sate his own ego I was flabbergasted. I've paid more attention to his actions since then and they've only made me think less of the man. I truly think he has done too many recreational drugs and has destroyed his mind.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#413

Post by bbbbb5 »

mbesto wrote: post #380
bbbbb5 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is far behind everyone else on navigation due to the simple fact that Teslas do not have Carplay. There's no Waze on Teslas, how can you drive without it? But here's how the current Mercedes navigation looks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCgy3askMcM The AR stuff works really well and is arguably way ahead of anything Tesla offers.

I've used both Tesla and Honda's Carplay for ~2 years now. I really enjoy Carplay (and the phone integration is a huge plus), but a few things: - re: waze - huh? Google Maps is just fine. The differences are such a personal preference that they are moot. - The touch controls on Carplay are not great. Try pinching and zooming on Google Maps in Carplay and its awful. (note - I do think Tesla misses the boat on having m…

>- re: waze - huh? Google Maps is just fine. The differences are such a personal preference that they are moot.

Waze tells you where cameras and cops are, Google Maps usually does not.

>- The touch controls on Carplay are not great. Try pinching and zooming on Google Maps in Carplay and its awful. (note - I do think Tesla misses the boat on having more physical controls as they almost rely entirely on touch...which is unsafe and not great)

I don't think I've ever needed to do this, it always automatically positions the map correctly.

>Looks awesome, but that appears to be on a €185k ICE car.

Pretty sure the pricing starts at €94,540. They also have an EV at around the same price, but it's an all-around worse car.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#414

Post by bbbbb5 »

rtp4me wrote: post #372
bbbbb5 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is far behind everyone else on navigation due to the simple fact that Teslas do not have Carplay. There's no Waze on Teslas, how can you drive without it? But here's how the current Mercedes navigation looks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCgy3askMcM The AR stuff works really well and is arguably way ahead of anything Tesla offers.

Hard disagree on this one. I have both a 2021 Tesla Model Y and a 2021 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid. Overall, the Tesla system is much better than the Toyota Infotainment system. For example: * Tesla maps has a much better zoom/scroll feature (faster, more detail, smoother). The Toyota map requires you to hit the "zoom" button and then click zoom-in/out * The calendar tool built into the Tesla allows me to easily navigate to t…

Great, your Tesla has better infotainment than ... a Toyota.

> * Waze is way too "chatty" for my taste

You can adjust that.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#415

Post by rtp4me »

lostmsu wrote: post #389
rtp4me wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree on this one. I have both a 2021 Tesla Model Y and a 2021 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid. Overall, the Tesla system is much better than the Toyota Infotainment system. For example: * Tesla maps has a much better zoom/scroll feature (faster, more detail, smoother). The Toyota map requires you to hit the "zoom" button and then click zoom-in/out * The calendar tool built into the Tesla allows me to easily navigate to t…

None of what you listed is applicable to Android Auto/CarPlay, which is exactly what parent was saying. For Android Auto it is a $100 device to make the system wireless so you don't have to pull your phone out of your pocket.

Sorry, but the parent to my specific comment did not mention anything about Andriod Auto/Carplay. Their comment specifically said "Tesla is far behind everyone else on navigation due to the simple fact that Teslas do not have Carplay". I am pointing out this is definitely not true.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#416

Post by Symbiote »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #291
ellieh wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any car behaving differently to a human driver is outright dangerous. For example, motorcyclists depend on inferring behaviour more than the average driver. Someone swerving towards an exit is far more reliable an indicator of them taking it than a signal - many drivers don't bother using them. Many bikers I know avoid Teslas like the plague, as they're deeply difficult to read at best, and lethal at worst.

> Any car behaving differently to a human driver is outright dangerous. Any traffic participant (of any type) behaving sufficiently differently than the fat part of the bell curve for the situation (traffic, weather, location, vehicle type, time of day, etc) they are in is dangerous because they violate the expectations of all other road participants have for them. Other road participants need to be able to make reli…

At least in the UK, this is why learner drivers have a clear sign on the back of the car ("L"), and people who have only just passed their test are encouraged to display a similar sign ("P").

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#417

Post by gggggg5 »

rtp4me wrote: post #415
lostmsu wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of what you listed is applicable to Android Auto/CarPlay, which is exactly what parent was saying. For Android Auto it is a $100 device to make the system wireless so you don't have to pull your phone out of your pocket.

Sorry, but the parent to my specific comment did not mention anything about Andriod Auto/Carplay. Their comment specifically said "Tesla is far behind everyone else on navigation due to the simple fact that Teslas do not have Carplay". I am pointing out this is definitely not true.

That's a deeply confusing interpretation. The correct reading is "Carplay brings better-than-Tesla navigation to any car."

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#418

Post by coutego »

Symbiote wrote: post #347
darknavi wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least their charging network is top tier. EA is rolling out pretty wide with US highways but most non-Tesla Supercharger site's reliability is laughable right now. To the point where they simply don't work when it's cold outside [0]. We (US) really need more competition in this space. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq0RAjJ1PKQ

According to the International Energy Agency, Europe (includes UK) has 49 thousand fast chargers vs. the USA's 22 thousand. (Also 307 thousand slow chargers vs 92 thousand.) That's a much bigger difference than I would have expected. Probably the slow charger need is less in the USA with more houses and fewer apartments, but the fast charger requirement should be higher, with longer average journeys and more intersta…

Well, if you take population into account (even just the EU part of Europe has more population than the US) the difference between US and Europe is not that big. China though...

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#419

Post by scarface74 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #411
filoleg wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need a one-off application for every streaming service, those are there in case you want to use them without phone at all. Bluetooth audio is a thing, and you can stream whatever audio you want from your phone to your car audio using that.

> You don't need a one-off application for every streaming service, those are there in case you want to use them without phone at all I agree. That's why it doesn't make sense that Tesla is approaching it as "bespoke or bust". > Bluetooth audio is a thing, and you can stream whatever audio you want from your phone to your car audio using that. Yes, but "streaming a single audio track (with low audio quality)" is pret…

It’s illegal in most states to stream video on a console that the driver can see while they are driving.

Apple and I believe Google are very strict about which apps can be used for CarPlay/Android Auto. There would be major repercussions if they weren’t.

Re: Investors conclude that Tesla is a carmaker, not a tech firm

#420

Post by neuronic »

_huayra_ wrote: post #126
bartread wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Minimalistic interiors Is this something you see as a benefit? For me Tesla's overall aesthetic, including both their exterior looks and interior design, along with the absence of physical controls that go long with that represent their biggest downsides (outside of build quality).

People ooh and aah over the tacky gigantoscreen in Teslas, but it was really a hack to avoid having to design the usual litany of buttons and knobs that go onto a dash. Thankfully most other manufacturers haven't gone as totally screen-centric as Tesla (yet...)

Yup the "minimalism" in Teslas is just a hack to forego complex interior designs that they are holistically unable to reproduce in their "giga"factories. It helps to reduce complexity and weight if you just slap an iPad next to the steering wheel.

What's REALLY bad though is that other manufacturers rushed after Tesla and turned their brains off. Now we have a bunch of electric cars with crappy plastic interiors (light weight for range) and shitty tablets as user interface. Some are recognizing these horrifying mistakes that will cost lives but it will take years to recover because a lot of projects are too far ahead already to be changed or canceled.

I mainly speak from extensive experience with Volkswagen - the crappy capacitative touch buttons on the steering wheel will finally go. The new CEO Blume is not as blind as Herbert Diess - he doesn't view Tesla as the second coming of the iPhone, especially since Teslas continue to stagnate in quality and other manufacturers are quickly catching up.

Good luck outproducing Hyundai, Kia, Volkswagen, BMW, Audi... time was Teslas ally especially because Toyota kept insisting on Hydrogen cars for so long and VW fucked up software development so bad with CARIAD that Konrad Zuse is spinning in his grave ready to produce energy for all EVs sold.

I credit Tesla with 2 things:

- Opening the EV market and pushing other manufacturers to invest

- Great engineering regarding battery and range (in the past)

The list of issues is longer nowadays and I am not willing to forgive quite as much as in 2014 with great alternatives on the market.

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