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3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

reuters.com

411–420 of 423 posts

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve thought about this. I think it really depends on whether we need more climate-minded voters in the future. If we do then those susceptible to this message are exactly the wrong ones to hear it.

We need climate-minded voters now , not years in the future. In fact, even now is too late really: we needed them 40 or 50 years ago!

I’m here!

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#412
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would be dead or a worthless monoculture that killed a healthy ecosystem in a few years, right?

Quite a few of them got at it intelligently, and actually restore healthy ecosystems destroyed by the burning and grazing that was once practiced.

For an example https://www.mossy.earth/projects/restoring-aspen

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#413

3M has been facing a raft of litigation that has prompted the move Generally speaking, toxic substances are only "cheap" due to externalizing many of the costs involved, like increased healthcare costs and lost productivity. If you do a thorough analysis of the costs of using such chemicals, they aren't cheap at all. Maybe someday humans will get that.

Hey Doreen, did you get access back to your google accounts?

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#415
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 20 years ago, I made a mistake at work which I later calculated put an extra 8500 metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. (It had to do with the delay/routing of a cargo ship.) There is literally nothing I could possibly do that could come even close to making up for that...

>There is literally nothing I could possibly do that could come even close to making up for that... I can say from personal experience this is not true! You can help fix other people's mistakes! I was an energy engineer for a while. You'd be amazed just how much low-lying fruit there is in terms of energy waste. I was also GOOD at this job. Instead of doing the brainless measures, I would really dig and do a lot of m…

Could you make your business free if you “don’t” find anything to fix, and then you charge a percentage of the benefit they receive? So if you save them 1 million, then you charge them $250k or some such percent

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is literally nothing I could possibly do that could come even close to making up for that... I can say from personal experience this is not true! You can help fix other people's mistakes! I was an energy engineer for a while. You'd be amazed just how much low-lying fruit there is in terms of energy waste. I was also GOOD at this job. Instead of doing the brainless measures, I would really dig and do a lot of m…

Could you make your business free if you “don’t” find anything to fix, and then you charge a percentage of the benefit they receive? So if you save them 1 million, then you charge them $250k or some such percent

Yes you can do that, and some companies actually go a step further and pay for the upgrades themselves and become like a pseudo-utility (See ESCO's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_service_company) where people pay them what they were paying, and the company reaps the benefits of the savings, but it actually gets really complex. Energy prices rise, and the clients needs change, they might sell their building, (who actually owns the equipment?) and it doesn't necessarily create correct incentives. It also delays payment by minimum a year, and it's a lot of additional hassle. (How do you handle disputes for unusual situations like them buying new equipment they didn't tell you about, etc. etc.)

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might be the same future though.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think any (serious) high CO2 predictions involve the extinction of our species, but rather extensive displacement as a changing climate changes zones of habitability on our planet.

If the human population reduced to 100m - still substantial - it's not technically extinction. But it's still essentially the end of our world and society. The people who died won't take solace in humanity not dying out.

Could we come back from it? Hard to say.

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#418
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If we could force companies to pay for externalized costs we could get to a net-zero earth immediately. Suddenly investments in green energy would increase 1000x

(and plunge civilization into a dark age overnight) Maybe people would stop self destructive habits like cigarettes and alcohol... (and maybe meat, and keeping pets) But all current electricity use would be diverted to solar panel and battery factories for a few years. Only rich people with solar panels could take hot showers... probably then only during sunny days. (interesting thought experiment)

None of this is directly implicated by the comment above.

Re: 3M to end 'forever chemicals' output

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true. The Gore-Tex layer isn't damaged like this. You're referring to the DNW coating, and there's no reason this can't be a waxed layer like old-school rain jackets. In fact a lot of companies started offering wax based DNW coatings in the name of environmental responsibility. The actual "Gore-Tex" layer, now no longer under patent and produced by many under names such as Dermizax, H2No, Sympatex and many…

A search says more than a 1000 words - and so do the countless questions it produces on just the problem of delamination. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gore-tex+delamination It might work fine for a weekend hike but the stuff does not hold up to repeated strain. Eventually it'll start to delaminate at the shoulders due to wear from backpack straps, cuffs and other exposed spots. This 'eventually' will depend on what you'…

You can get Gore-Tex patch kits for any punctures you encounter.

There are also a wide range of textiles available for the outer layers. Many have high Kevlar/aramid content and are much tougher in abrasion than waxed cotton.

I have a Ventile jacket which should be the pinnacle of cotton waterproof design, and it is much easier to damage than modern synthetic jacket, and on top of this it doesn't breath as well, or keep me as dry under continuous downpour conditions. It's also harder to repair due to the high density of the fibres.

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