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Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

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Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#411

Post by quanticle »

commandlinefan wrote: post #232
kstrauser wrote: post #162

I’m thrilled to see facial recognition applied against people in a position to speak out loudly against it. A lot of people seem OK with it when it’s policing the bad parts of town. This is their reminder that it can be used against them, too.

> it can be used against them, too Is it facial recognition that's the problem here, or the policy itself? In theory, they could hand out pictures of everybody who wasn't allowed in to the security staff and use low-tech facial recognition to enforce the same policy - assuming it was scalable, would it be OK then? I remember reading that IBM got into trouble when it first computerized its personnel files because some…

    assuming it was scalable, would it be OK then?
The problem with automated facial recognition technology is that it makes what used to be infeasible suddenly routine and cheap. In the past, would the security folks at Madison Square Garden have even thought about implementing this kind of policy? No, of course not; it would have been obvious from the very beginning that such a policy would have required far too many resources to feasibly implement. At best, they'd have been able to hand out pictures of a few folks, known to be bad actors, and told their security personnel, "Hey, watch out for these people and don't let them in." It's highly unlikely that a random obscure attorney working at the same firm, but not specifically tied to the litigation at hand, would have made it onto that list.

However, today, with facial recognition, it's possible for Madison Square Garden to have blacklists consisting of thousands, or even tens of thousands of people and check against them just as quickly and as easily as if they were a list of a dozen people. That's a qualitative change, and I think it's valid to treat it as a separate kind of thing than a bunch of security guards, each with a stack of photographs.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#412

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

Pigalowda wrote: post #400
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The woman's law firm is in active litigation with MSG Entertainment. She knows she's not allowed on the premises while the lawsuits are unresolved. They saw her and kicked her out. But this is a controversy because Girl Scout Mom got spotted by facial recognition I guess. Not the fact that she was trespassing. Last month MSG revoked the corporate suite leased by a law firm that was _actively suing them_. And they mad…

Sure we can take that matter of fact approach, and she accepts. However MSG is now not allowed to have a liquor license as a matter of fact.

Nah MSG is still allowed to sell alcohol. But this woman is not allowed on the premises.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#413

Post by LarryMullins »

kstrauser wrote: post #373
test6554 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you have someone on camera committing a crime in this age of deep fakes is no guarantee that they are guilty... But it definitely provides police with a suspect to investigate further. The most devastating tool for fighting crime is not increasing the penalties or making jail more miserable. No, the most effective way to stop crime is by drastically increasing the chances of getting caught and correctly…

I’m wholeheartedly against facial recognition in legal systems. The fact is that they don’t work well, and they specifically have a bad tendency to identify the wrong black person much more often than they misidentify white people. From [3] below: > Asian and African American people were up to 100 times more likely to be misidentified than white men, depending on the particular algorithm and type of search. Native Am…

I think it's possible that multispectral imaging may solve the difficulties these systems have with dark skin. However even if this were resolved, I would still oppose these systems because I don't want to live in a panopticon prison society, even if all the technology works correctly and never makes a false accusation. I think such a society is aesthetically disgusting.

Furthermore, an accurate system is not the same as a morally just system. A ubiquitous system which recognizes people with 100% accuracy could be used for evil if it ever fell into the wrong hands. Such powerful systems should never be created in the first place, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#414

Post by whoknew1122 »

kiernanmcgowan wrote: post #358
kayodelycaon wrote: post #214

This reminds me of an incident that showed up in one of my college courses: A forklift driver who got fired for drinking Budweiser. He worked for a company that Miller Brewing company contacted with and a newspaper took a photo of him at a public event drinking Budweiser. Different situation, same kind of pettiness and retaliation.

The required brand loyalty from Miller crazy - friends who have worked for them will pour non-miller beverages into glassware so that they can't be photographed holding a competitor's product. This is not in public mind you, but at someone else's apartment and not on company time. Not sure if Budweiser / AB does the same thing back but its a really backwards way to run a company culture.

While my experience is over 15 years old now, it was a common practice for the majority of beer distributors at the time.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#415

Post by tqi »

vleon42 wrote: post #35

I am torn actually unsure on what would be morally correct: 1. I, as an individual, am allowed to deny entry to persons I dislike from my private property. 2. I, as an individual, am allowed to deny entry to persons affiliated with a business I dislike from my private property. 3. I, as a business owner (eg: a restaurant), am allowed to deny entry to persons I dislike (eg: a previous patron who was violent) from my b…

I think if a business is the beneficiary of a number of public subsidizes and allowances, then they lose a lot of that discretion.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#416

Post by Gigachad »

kstrauser wrote: post #262
commandlinefan wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it can be used against them, too Is it facial recognition that's the problem here, or the policy itself? In theory, they could hand out pictures of everybody who wasn't allowed in to the security staff and use low-tech facial recognition to enforce the same policy - assuming it was scalable, would it be OK then? I remember reading that IBM got into trouble when it first computerized its personnel files because some…

You're right: it's the policy that's bad. However, facial recognition is what makes enforcing that policy possible, and society and the law haven't changed quickly enough to deal with the repercussions. For instance, say 18 year old "Joe" gets caught stealing soda from a fast food place. The manager kicks him out and bans him from the store. Fast forward a decade, when Joe walks back into the store with his wife and…

I see it as things returning to how they were. In a small town, the person running the fast food joint often did work there for decades and everyone recognized everyone. Theft was hard to get away with because you don't just blend in to the masses like a modern city. Now tech is allowing us to hold people accountable again.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#417

Post by CosmicShadow »

The fucked thing about this is that as it's normalized and justified it allows companies and venues to start blocking people it doesn't like for whatever reason and essentially banishes them from society for life.

Critical of Ticketmaster online and they start to take notice? I guess you wont' be allowed into most venues or concerts for life on this continent. We also won't tell you why you were banned or offer a way out (because that's how Google and Facebook operate and it suits us). It's allowing people to be kicked out of "real world" walled gardens.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#418

Post by bonzini »

strix_varius wrote: post #345
xyzzyz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact more practical than setting up face detection system, all you need to do is ID scanner and some simple OCR system to cross check the name on ID against blacklist, each person entering slaps ID against scanners (similar to how you do it with boarding passes at the airport or with public transit passes at gates), after one second either red or green light flashes. Shouldn’t take more than 5 seconds per…

Here's how we know this isn't true: they evaluated how to do this at scale, chose facial recognition, and then implemented it successfully in a 6,000 person stadium.

Not because it's impractical to check IDs, but because facial recognition is less explicit and thus more easily "normalized".

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#419

Post by tqi »

treis wrote: post #193
rootusrootus wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a really good case for any competent lawyer and I'm pretty sure their legal team is not very happy right now. I'm surprised that the policy of banning litigating lawyers ever passed their legal department to begin with. It's just inviting a guaranteed headache without providing any additional legal advantage.

James Dolan, as any Knicks fan will tell you, is a gigantic idiot. He's CEO of his daddy's company and basically sucks at everything he does.

Yeah this seems like a Dolan special: petty, poorly thought out, and potentially costly.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#420

Post by eastbound »

whoopdedo wrote: post #158

What does the Bar have to say about being a customer of a business you're suing. Wouldn't this be more of a concern for the law firm than the venue? But I can see how this has a chilling effect if you can lose access to goods and services because you're taking legal action against the company. Reminds me of the story I heard, though I forget the details (or even if it was true), about someone retaining numerous law f…

Imagine doing a chargeback on Google for a bug in their app purchase, and your Gmail accounts being revoked.
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