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AWS and Blockchain

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Re: AWS and Blockchain

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already USDC, USDT, DAI that are all US dollars. I use Argent wallet for payments between friends using them and it is a nice experience (especially because Venmo and Cash both aren't available outside the USA), the friction is sending them to and from a traditional bank account, you currently have to use an exchange - but this will change soon.

And there will be a huge amount of friction there: - ACH is reversible - wires are expensive

Reversable transactions are a feature, not a bug.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there would be value but we neeed a real currency(i.e usd) on the blockchain. It's obvious that all those pegged currencies are prone to "bank run" scenarios. Not to mention the fiat conversion ruines the whole experience. With a real currency we could have at least real open and standards based p2p payments which would be great! Just like with cash offline we would no longer need visa, paypal or banks to tra…

There is already USDC, USDT, DAI that are all US dollars. I use Argent wallet for payments between friends using them and it is a nice experience (especially because Venmo and Cash both aren't available outside the USA), the friction is sending them to and from a traditional bank account, you currently have to use an exchange - but this will change soon.

> There is already USDC, USDT, DAI that are all US dollars.

They would dearly like you to believe that they are dollars.

To date the dollar-backing of USDT at least has not been substantiated and I don't think I know anyone in the cryptocurrency space who thinks any of those are actually real and responsible--they're just trying not to be the ones caught with the bag when the music stops and actual money is called in.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well suppose you nominally have the support of local government and police, but in practice they can bought cheaply, and suddenly the records match what the large landholder says instead of the markers you used to have. An immutable record would help solve this, but the point stands that it is not convincing that you need a blockchain or that it would solve the problem. How would you get local government to buy into…

An immutable record adds problems. What do you do when a river moves? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia%E2%80%93Serbia_border_... Who owns new land in Hawaii when the volcano meets the sea? https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/who-owns-the-land-created-... What happens when someone makes a surveying mistake and enters that permanently into the blockchain?

Sorry, by immutable records I do not mean that data is never changed, only that the records of such changes are immutable. The current state can always be computed by applying a log of changes, and when you make a change you'd be recording who made the change and why. Invalid changes could still be made, but you'd have a record to expedite appeal processes or litigation. This is why I don't think blockchain helps, because government authorities still have to be trusted to do their job when the facts are clear. So any kind of centralized cryptographic ledger (such as AWS QLDB) would work.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the use case for this? I’m not seeing it.

You see no benefit in Apps that cannot be "disappeared" by anyone (even the person who deployed it), and which scales without bound and can be composed (re-skinned or extended) without restriction? Or, forked and restricted to your own cryptographically identified and secured set of users?

Can you answer the question with use cases and examples instead of this rhetorical question? It doesn't help your credibility when you can't list off 10-20 use cases and examples for your groundbreaking technology without contorting yourself.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#415

> [Andy Jassey] said something like this: “All these leaders [CIOs and CTOs of huge enterprises] are asking me what our blockchain strategy is. They tell me that everyone’s saying it’s the future, the platform that’s going to obsolete everything else. I need to have a good answer for them. I’ll be honest, when they explain why it’s wonderful I just don’t get it. You guys got to go figure it out for us.” To me the tel…

most of the problems blockchain attempts to solve are public coordination problems in adversarial environments rather than corporate problems the CTOs/CIOs are likely to have.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#416
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see no benefit in Apps that cannot be "disappeared" by anyone (even the person who deployed it), and which scales without bound and can be composed (re-skinned or extended) without restriction? Or, forked and restricted to your own cryptographically identified and secured set of users?

Can you answer the question with use cases and examples instead of this rhetorical question? It doesn't help your credibility when you can't list off 10-20 use cases and examples for your groundbreaking technology without contorting yourself.

I'm sorry; but isn't this sort of like demanding an answer to the question "I can't see a use for the motorcar; horses work just fine"?

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Read up on git internals, it's a very elegant and simple design and you seem to assume a few things about it that are flat out wrong. I am well acquainted with git internals and object types, which include blobs, trees, commits, and tags. But I do acknowledge that I was wrong about git not hashing the object's contents – it does. > A git repository is in fact a Merkle tree. Every commit is chained to the previous c…

You were arguing it's not a proper merkle tree and it is. You are not a little bit wrong there but flat out barking up the wrong tree. It's a merkle tree with full immutability and append only behavior. This is not an accidental/conceptual similarity. It's the single most important design decision that Git is based on. Force push only allows you to wipe out repositories that you control. The whole point of git is tha…

I am not arguing the case of git having or not having Merkle trees (git has a «weak» implementation of the Merkle trees, for in a ledger database every block's cryptographic signature derives from the contents of the preceding block – a property that git does not possess as it does not support the concept of blocks and operates of commit trees instead that are allowed to be moved around). I am arguing two points, specifically:

Point no. 1: > Ledgers are quite easy to build.

Cryptographically provable, tamper-proof ledgers that will sustain a 3rd party compliance certification are not easy to build, they are expensive to build, test and certify (very expensive!), and are very expensive to operate, especially in large scale environments.

Point no. 2: > Git is a ledger.

git is not a proper ledger due to the lack of two fundamental properties of a ledger, as originally stated:

1. an immutable, tamper proof, append-only transaction log;

git does not satisfy this requirement by virtue of allowing one to tamper with the commit history. Write access to commits is the major offender here as it is there, and it opens the door for the commit history abuse. An append-only transaction log also offers a linear, entirely immutable, history (a very important quality from the compliance perspective!), whereas git (by virtue of allowing branches) allows for a non-linear, mutable, temporal history that breaks the linear progression of revisions of valuable documents/assets being stored in it.

2. cryptographically verifiable datasets;

git offers a limited facility into the verification due to allowing one to modify the commit trees, and, by extension, to rewrite the commit history. A git commit history can't be trusted to from the compliance perspective.

What I am sensing is a misconstruction of the purpose of git. git is designed to track changes but not to provide the evidence of changes having not been tampered with. Both purposes have their own places and their own use cases, and the git design is sound and solid, yet it serves an entirely different purpose altogether, and – no – it can't be repurposed as a ledger. That is the case I am arguing.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#418
post #167

Blockchain was invented to solve one particular problem: distributed consensus on a sequence of transactions, where the choice of which transaction to include from a set of conflicting transactions is irrelevant. The latter property here is key to understanding where blockchain is useful. It was created to solve the "double spend problem", ie. two transitions that spend the same coin but send it to different recipien…

I used to think this, but working with DeFi on Ethereum for a while I've realized the killer feature is actually permissionless composability. Which is why enterprise block chains make little sense. Having one neutral platform, controlled by no one, with standardized API's and immutable open programs that anyone can permissionlessly build on - is amazing. We've never had this before, and it's incredible how fast the…

> controlled by no one, with standardized API's

Controlled by no one, but suddenly standardized APIs exist. Who standardized them?

Controlled by no one, but suddenly everyone is going to use those standardized APIs that appeared by magic. And even those entities that never ever used open or standardized APIs will rush to use them because blockchain.

> We've never had this before, and it's incredible how fast the DeFi space is moving because of it

Theres nothing amazing about companies busy reinventing flash loans and currency speculation.

> This is a radical new way of building finance and it's the fastest paced industry I've ever been a part of.

It's only fast because it deals in fantasy tokens in a very limited scope with zero oversight or regulation. And this space is busy re-discovering why these regulations exist in the first place.

> Like AWS people didn't understand the value initially

Most people understood AWS value initially. 2-3 years after launch everyone understood AWS. Now everyone uses it.

AWS provided, and still provides, a multitude of services that are actually useful. Where as the "fast moving space" offers nothing outside the "buy low sell high flash loan" hamster wheel that is "defi"?

> I think a lot of HN doesn't get it because they don't work in finance, but everyone I've talked to who works in finance (or has to deal with their archaic systems) is really excited about the possibilities.

There are very very few people in finance who are excited about it. For many, many, many reasons.

Those who are excited are excited for all the wrong reasons: scams, speculations, unlimited investor money. The last one will probably go away soon. Speculations are only valuable as long as the fictional tokens are valuable for some definition of value. There's almost nothing else in the crypto space.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#419
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this, but working with DeFi on Ethereum for a while I've realized the killer feature is actually permissionless composability. Which is why enterprise block chains make little sense. Having one neutral platform, controlled by no one, with standardized API's and immutable open programs that anyone can permissionlessly build on - is amazing. We've never had this before, and it's incredible how fast the…

See this is where HN has fallen off a cliff, the top commented Runeks supplies a highly theoretical and nonchalant answer to what blockchains _can_ be. That’s been the majority of HNs take on the technology. But the Internet was made for text communication and here we are decades later with social media and streaming video. TimJRobinson at least states something which is rare on HN, a take on blockchain technology wi…

TimJ lists simply enumerates a bunch of software names with almost no content to move the discussion along.

I could have said, "Well blockchain is important because I used Schmaltz, Goober, and Cookie deployed on Flanders, Homer and Kearney, the open API just works out of the box," and by your logic I'd be some wizened mage on the subject.

There is a cliff on HN, but you might want to invest in a parachute.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this, but working with DeFi on Ethereum for a while I've realized the killer feature is actually permissionless composability. Which is why enterprise block chains make little sense. Having one neutral platform, controlled by no one, with standardized API's and immutable open programs that anyone can permissionlessly build on - is amazing. We've never had this before, and it's incredible how fast the…

What is the benefit of deploying something on a platform controlled by no one? Why not just run all of those things on a server you own?

One benefit is that you can more credibly offer to keep your promises. I haven’t audited Uniswap’s smart contract code, but if I did I feel I could be pretty confident they won’t steal my money. Meanwhile, users of FTX depended on government regulation and pinky-swears to keep their money safe, but since SBF owned the platform he could do whatever he wanted.

disclosure: I work for a crypto company

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