Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#411

Post by fullshark » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #355

KaiserPro wrote: post #308

THe issue we all have here is this: if Musk is successful then treating employees nicely will fall out of fashion. Tech was a bastion of "treat your employees right, and they'll be productive". Musk is not a proponent of that. He is a micromanaging, capricious, easily distracted, arrogant and vindictive CEO. If twitter thrives then we can expect copycats to try and spread his shitty work philosophy (like everyone ido…

It's a free market. He'll keep employees who adhere to this culture and those who think the pay is worth it. Others will go work somewhere else.

The point is OP thinks everywhere else will soon be exactly like Twitter.

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#412

Post by LanceH » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #353

losvedir wrote: post #180

And so the grand experiment begins. I feel bad for the folks losing their job because that always sucks, and I hope there's a decent severance package. Now we'll see what happens to Twitter... I hardly use it, so if it implodes it won't bother me too much. But I am curious to see if all the "how do you need X people to do Y?" commenters are correct in this case. The app is simple but doing simple things at scale is h…

> Anyone want to make predictions about the state of Twitter in a few years? what I hope is that it shrinks to about 1/20th its current size. And then many many smaller platforms spring up. I think one thing that makes social media hard to manage is the sheer scale. It's likely much easier to manage/moderate a smaller social network than a huge one. Also, it wouldn't be as dramatic to be kicked off a platform because…

> And then many many smaller platforms spring up

and they are successful by interoperating, until one becomes more popular than the others and turns proprietary. (I just want to get my prediction in also)

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#413

Post by lupire » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

rockostrich wrote: post #337

mikkergp wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be interesting to see how Elon defines success. Twitter in it's current form is a dead end, and there's no way "more free speech" is going increase either revenue or users. So if you think Elon is going to succeed at making Twitter a better Twitter as we know it, then I'm confident this take is wrong. Which is why he's focused on the everything X app or whatever. Now, I wouldn't want to underestimate Elon, he…

I have no doubts that a super app will succeed in the US like Pinduoduo has in China but I highly doubt that's going to come from the environment that Elon is already establishing at Twitter. You can't successfully build dozens of new products by laying off a big chunk of the staff and telling people to work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week when they've gotten comfortable with a reasonable work-life balance (I know Tesla…

996 (72hr weeks) apparently works in China, so why wouldn't it be made to work here, especially if all the rich companies use the economic headwinds to collude and reduce compensation/QoL/perks? Also a massive fraction of young US techies are Chinese immigrants -- are they as vulnerable to 996 in US or are they a select group who escaped it?

And can Musk and others staff up in China (if US and Chinese politics/government allows it)?

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#414

Post by PM_me_your_math » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #308

THe issue we all have here is this: if Musk is successful then treating employees nicely will fall out of fashion. Tech was a bastion of "treat your employees right, and they'll be productive". Musk is not a proponent of that. He is a micromanaging, capricious, easily distracted, arrogant and vindictive CEO. If twitter thrives then we can expect copycats to try and spread his shitty work philosophy (like everyone ido…

Twitter employees were treated nicely. Too nicely. And yet they were not productive. The only new features they introduced in 10 years were losses in excess of 200MM to 1bn+ and the banning/shadow banning of those who went against the group think, fun police, and thought-gestapo. Each staffer had 10 bosses and every department had a ton of waste.

Musk could never show up again after some changes, and the company would perform better than under the previous leadership.

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#415

Post by wellpast » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

admissionsguy wrote: post #371

KaiserPro wrote: post #308

THe issue we all have here is this: if Musk is successful then treating employees nicely will fall out of fashion. Tech was a bastion of "treat your employees right, and they'll be productive". Musk is not a proponent of that. He is a micromanaging, capricious, easily distracted, arrogant and vindictive CEO. If twitter thrives then we can expect copycats to try and spread his shitty work philosophy (like everyone ido…

Then stop being employees. Jesus Christ, you people take those massive salaried yet act like little children throwing tantrums because you fear your boss may not coddle you as much.

This is the story of our industry. We are so lucky and don't even know it. I've been privileged to pull substantial salary and equity outcomes at various tech groups with "top tier" engineers who get away with murder because there are literally no stakes in the job performance. If you are approximately 'smart' and get a minimal amount of work done you can get away with murder. I've gotten junior engineers jobs in this industry, and when I check back in on some of them they are like yeah I work 1 hour a day and make well into six figures. And managers and bosses are terrified of asking for any outcomes lest they lose and have to try to rehire.

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#416

Post by Noe2097 » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #308

THe issue we all have here is this: if Musk is successful then treating employees nicely will fall out of fashion. Tech was a bastion of "treat your employees right, and they'll be productive". Musk is not a proponent of that. He is a micromanaging, capricious, easily distracted, arrogant and vindictive CEO. If twitter thrives then we can expect copycats to try and spread his shitty work philosophy (like everyone ido…

> tech was a bastion of "treat your employees right, and they will be productive"

Is/was it? The shortage of qualified engineers have made some employers extra careful/generous, to attract and keep them. Or some others to divert brains away from their own occupations which could have ended up competing with them.

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#417

Post by jollyllama » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #308

THe issue we all have here is this: if Musk is successful then treating employees nicely will fall out of fashion. Tech was a bastion of "treat your employees right, and they'll be productive". Musk is not a proponent of that. He is a micromanaging, capricious, easily distracted, arrogant and vindictive CEO. If twitter thrives then we can expect copycats to try and spread his shitty work philosophy (like everyone ido…

Have employees taken license with being "treated right"?

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#418

Post by octokatt » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #406

KaiserPro wrote: post #308

THe issue we all have here is this: if Musk is successful then treating employees nicely will fall out of fashion. Tech was a bastion of "treat your employees right, and they'll be productive". Musk is not a proponent of that. He is a micromanaging, capricious, easily distracted, arrogant and vindictive CEO. If twitter thrives then we can expect copycats to try and spread his shitty work philosophy (like everyone ido…

Are these layoffs even legal under the WARN act?

Nope. Lawsuit filed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-04/twitter-s...

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#419

Post by bambataa » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

redwood wrote: post #9

In my view no single medium (the media is the message) has done more to weaken the quality of public discourse in the world than Twitter. But maybe Facebook proves that even if you're allowed to use prose crazies dominate so maybe the issue is deeper

Gonna be weird when journalists have to start digging up stories rather than just reposting tweets.

Re: Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun

#420

Post by travisgriggs » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

aardvarkr wrote: post #334

giancarlostoro wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont understand the SpaceX argument since he was an actual original founder if I'm not mistaken, I could see the Tesla argument, but those people never provide any true insight into how he is riding on Teslas former success whenever I run into those (not to mention, if it was so good... why did they need a new CEO). I think it's pretty obvious he is a capable individual, overly ambitious at times, but hey, he someh…

As an ex spacex employee I can definitely say that it wouldn’t have been half the company today if Musk want in charge. Not a fanboy but trying to give an honest evaluation. Space is crazy hard and doesn’t happen without brilliant people so of course the credit for the success of the company goes to the engineers and everyone that gave some of their best work to making it happen though that type of success doesn’t ha…

Thanks for sharing your ex-space-x perspective. I too, am skeptical about any good coming from this.

I observe that Musk’s biggest wins is where he has used his enthusiasm and large cachet of celebrity capital to challenge the status quo. Tesla and SpaceX both embody elements of society that sci-fi has been dreaming since we were kids. Self landing rockets flying all the time! Electric robot cars that drive themselves! He challenges entrenched industries to do a thing that people wish they would do, but the bean counters say isn’t worth it. It least that’s how the fanciful narrative goes.

The problem with Twitter (or any social network/super app) is that it is not clear what that “go big, go beyond, dream big” trajectory is. For me personally, it’d be about open source, open walls, federation, and above all no fricking advertisement/surveillance economy. I don’t see how Musk’s acquisition here achieves that or any other “dream for the stars” aspiration one has for Twitter.