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What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

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Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#411
post #27

I am an SAP developer since kind of forever, my first job after university (since 2009). First I hated it, but the deeper I am entrenched, the more I see why you choose SAP: Because there really is no alternative. The data model is so complex because it is growing iteratively since the 80s. Hacker News is valuing businesses that adjust to the customer instead of going for some kind of purity. Another complexity espec…

> ABAP, the programming language of SAP, is quite nice nowadays

I took a brief look at the ABAP wikipedia article and this insanity [1] stood out to me. I think after a decade of SAP you are too brain-washed to give an objective opinion anymore.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABAP#Spaces

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#412
post #386
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thing is that gave rise to RPA as an industry.

RPA isn't usually needed with SAP. They have an API and scripting support.

Sure, if you have a dedicated dev team just for SAP automations.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#413

"Everyone" is on SAP or Oracle. And yet... They send you PDF invoices with no consistent formatting. There's never a decent way to get an electronic invoice. Any electronic files you do get, such as lists of invoices, are in a completely different format from all the others. There's no way to place an electronic order without using their website (manually or by scraping) At best, stuff comes by email. Often, you get…

EDI solves all of these

And yet has solved none of those. I was involved in the big effort to modernize EDI decades ago to use XML, then JSON, then REST-based approaches to simplify and encourage adoption of electronic invoicing, and yet none of it really had any effect. Emailing PDFs it is. Now the best solution is using RPA tools to automatically extract information from emailed PDFs to get them into the system. Yes, it's ERP to PDF and back to ERP using NLP and automation. Such as it is.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#414
post #310

I worked in public accounting with some major corporations as clients. Every single company I interacted with used SAP. It is the de facto software in its field and is deeply entrenched. Its UX is the most horribly wicked thing I’ve ever come across. We would conduct walkthroughs with process control owners that showed us what they would do in SAP to perform their job functions, and it would take multiple, intelligen…

SAP, Excel, and Bloomberg Terminal are applications where there such a long tail of uses that it is hard to see them being replaced in the corporate world anytime soon.

Exactly. And I'd say that the Bloomberg Terminal user experience is pretty good especially compared to other "enterprise"/expensive applications like SAP. So the only reason you'd want to switch is cost, but that's usually not a problem for clients considering how powerful of a tool it is.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#415
post #310

I worked in public accounting with some major corporations as clients. Every single company I interacted with used SAP. It is the de facto software in its field and is deeply entrenched. Its UX is the most horribly wicked thing I’ve ever come across. We would conduct walkthroughs with process control owners that showed us what they would do in SAP to perform their job functions, and it would take multiple, intelligen…

This is the kind of inefficiency that used to kill companies before the "everything is a monopoly" era. Nobody will ever replace SAP on the companies that use it, and if they are safe from competition, well, nobody will replace the companies either.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#416
post #310

I worked in public accounting with some major corporations as clients. Every single company I interacted with used SAP. It is the de facto software in its field and is deeply entrenched. Its UX is the most horribly wicked thing I’ve ever come across. We would conduct walkthroughs with process control owners that showed us what they would do in SAP to perform their job functions, and it would take multiple, intelligen…

Sometimes this is why I think we'll end up with a refresh of the corporate world with digitally native businesses not running on SAP. I imagine at some point we'll run out of people who know SAP and are even willing to learn it.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#417

> ERP isn’t cheap. A large multinational company may spend $100 million to $500 million in total on implementation: $30 million in software license fees, $200 million in consulting fees, millions for hardware, and millions more to train managers and employees. A full implementation takes four to six years. A CEO of a large chemical firm was quoted as saying, "competitive advantage in this industry might just come fro…

It's funny I have the exact same instinct / reaction as you do (and I certainly would do that if it were my company I were building). But I think we're probably both naive.

Some thoughts:

* Most companies are not software companies, and most c-level managers are not tech leaders. They treat IT as an annoying expense, like taxes. The idea of hiring software engineers to gather requirements and run a lean process to build efficient software from the ground up on a modern web stack is as foreign to them as setting up a chemical processing pipeline and logistics management network is to me.

* Rolling your own solution takes time, and more importantly, energy and involvement of the whole company. I would argue that it might take less time than a big SAP implementation, but with the latter you can just hire a big consulting firm (there's that cost center again...) and they'll deal with everything for you so your people can just work.

* This is a bit of a chicken and egg thing, but: A lot of SAP's customers aren't startups. If you're hired in the be the CEO of an oil company running major pipelines, you've already got SAP running everywhere. And you do your first big move and acquire a small competitor, and THEY have SAP running too. So why are you going to embark on a huge software development project when a) you're not a software company, b) you're not a startup leader, etc. etc. etc.

Although to be honest, the success (?) the US Government has had doing basically what you propose via the USDC / 18F does give me some hope. But alas, much of the world is too far gone already (sigh).

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#418
I don't know what SAP is and I don't really care.

What I do remember is that it seems to be down a lot. I started working in 1997 and about twice a week we would get emails from IT saying "SAP is down" and then a few hours later "SAP is back up"

After a few months of this spam I set up an email filter.

I was on the engineering side. I still don't know what SAP is and I've never needed to learn but it doesn't seem like a great product for how unreliable it seemed to be.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there really no meaningful competitors to SAP in this space?

Workday Financials is a meaningful competitor. I used SAP Concur at my last job and "horribly wicked thing" is accurate. It reminds me of that "evil UX" thing that was making the rounds a year or two ago.

The sad thing is that Concur used to be great. It was acquired by SAP and then "SAPified", now it's a nightmare. But it does /exactly/ what the bean counters want, which is to mindlessly and stupidly apply policies against business travelers who are just trying to get their job done.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#420

I don't know what SAP is and I don't really care. What I do remember is that it seems to be down a lot. I started working in 1997 and about twice a week we would get emails from IT saying "SAP is down" and then a few hours later "SAP is back up" After a few months of this spam I set up an email filter. I was on the engineering side. I still don't know what SAP is and I've never needed to learn but it doesn't seem lik…

It's your company's central administration, basically.

As for downtime, that's probably not down to SAP itself; it's core business, if it goes down, companies can no longer operate and will lose millions. But, with so many moving parts, there's a lot of things that can and will go wrong if handled uncarefully.

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