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It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

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Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#411

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ArnoVW wrote: post #340
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should check out Andino v. Apple , an ongoing lawsuit in which the plaintiff alledges that the use of the "Buy" button is fraudulent if content is truly not bought. I feel like you are confusing copyright law with contract law. I can purchase Minecraft without agreeing to any EULA. It only appears after you download the launcher. Here are the two types of unconscionability: The basic test applied for unconscionab…

I-am-not-a-lawyer (nor a judge for that matter), but it seems to me that that line of reasoning can be shut down extremely easily. You're buying a licence. So the "buy" button is not fraudulent.

As long as it says "buy a license to use Minecraft" and not "buy Minecraft" then yes. If it just says "buy" without telling you what you're buying them a reasonable person would assume it was a good and not a license. You want to sell me a license to some unspecified-until-after-sale access to a good, then don't obtain my money by deceiving me, tell me up front ... then yes, you win at capitalism, go you.

But that truth impacts sales as people want ownership without companies being able to rug pull. We want to be able to load up Minecraft in 30y regardless of whether Microsoft decided they're done with it.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#412

Post by BeefWellington »

xdrosenheim wrote: post #308
BeefWellington wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but then you have adults "self flagging" as children to be awful.

But then you have their new moderation for that group...

The ones they're not already paying for / doing?

Anyone who has played anything in the MMO genre over the past couple of decades can tell you that most moderation systems are a joke and as automated as possible, with very very few moderators looking at reports.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#413

Post by pbhjpbhj »

sudosysgen wrote: post #84
8jy89hui wrote: post #2

Does anyone have any insight into why Microsoft thought this was necessary? Minecraft has been server-moderated for years now and has been wildly successful. I've never heard of any hate groups or even hateful servers (I'm sure they exist, but they don't make the news in a way that would harm Microsoft). Is there some legislation that would make it a liability for Microsoft to not moderate all the chat? This move jus…

There has been increasing abuse with gambling and predatory Minecraft servers marketed towards kids.

And Microsoft doesn't want others getting in on its financial predation. /snark

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#414

Post by Kiro »

bspammer wrote: post #293
Kiro wrote: post #286

A two month old post on a hacking forum complaining about chat moderation in a game for kids, from a user running cracked servers. Apparently enough for HN to pick up the pitchforks because, you know, Big Tech Bad.

The game is not for kids, the game is just played by a lot of kids. Why is anything that kids can find fun branded as “for kids”? The target market when notch originally created the game was certainly not kids.

I'm a Minecraft player myself but fact remains that most players are children and the moderation needs to be adapted accordingly.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#415

Post by Kiro »

oynqr wrote: post #404
LadyCailin wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody is building a sandcastle on the beach, and you go step on it for fun, you’re just a raging asshole, not cute and clever.

I agree. While they are building it, destroying it would be a dick move. Once they are done with it and not around, it's fair game.

So that analogy makes absolutely no sense considering they grief and ruin active servers, and destroy people's hard work. I don't understand how they can live with themselves. The careless attitude to this fact by the poster, casually mentioning they are part of the group like it's something normal, makes it even more unempathetic.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#416

Post by strogonoff »

nottorp wrote: post #365
strogonoff wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I am not a parent, my opinion doesn’t count for much—but when I imagine myself one, I wish me and my kids could have an open-source sandbox game that is fully owned by us and is playable on our own infrastructure without any further involvement of game publisher. No marketplace with coins, no microtransactions, no mining my child’s PII before you allow to play a game I bought, no online login screen, no platfor…

> Minecraft used to be a great example of such a game, until it got bought by Microsoft. Java edition still qualifies. Not sure for how much longer.

It fails on some points. There is a login screen (you must periodically connect to Microsoft’s servers), and accounts are reportedly locked until players provide Microsoft their phone number. The chat reporting feature being discussed here is a further example of restrictions on what you can do with the game you bought.

If the free-to-play microtransaction-supported model is more financially appealing than allowing customers own a product, then anything that allows to enjoy and extend the game without Microsoft overseeing it and getting a cut (like open-source Java versions of the client and the server) is a liability. Chat reporting is to me clear evidence of Microsoft trying to justify further lock-up and ongoing subscription model. Next they will say because OSS allows bypassing or cheating the reporting they must close the source and limit mod API.

I would be fine if Microsoft continued to release the game as a separate, adult-rated but unlocked product for gamers who care (and charged for major updates, they will absolutely pay), while separately providing a locked platform stuffed with coins, marketplaces, walled garden for mods, corporate moderators, safety guarantees and whatever else for those who want an easy solution safe for children without adult oversight.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#417

Post by throwaway290 »

RUN12 wrote: post #223
TakeBlaster16 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they ran official Microsoft servers with moderated chat, but also let you join custom servers after showing a scary warning message (and maybe checked your account birthday or something too). Would that not be enough to free them of liability?

Why the assumption that they care only about liability? Minecraft is now a multi-decade game and they want to keep it as the #1 king of it's domain to sell copies for many more decades. That will be hard if parents see headlines about "Minecraft" (no, the specific server host won't matter) being used to exploit or otherwise prey upon children and stop buying it.

> if parents see headlines about "Minecraft" (no, the specific server host won't matter) being used to exploit or otherwise prey upon children and stop buying it

You make it sound like it's an alien concept that only us techies understand, but it is actually quite a mainstream understanding that once you legally buy a thing then whatever illegal stuff you do with it is a responsibility of law enforcement and not whoever made and sold you that thing. What is alien here is this belief that intentional remote crippling of a product with no court order or anything is somehow even legal

Anyway. If you follow the money real threat to MS bottom line is not losing a 30 bucks one time per household but having people prefer the more moddable, unlockable OG version that the cool kids are playing (JE) over recurring revenue cash cow (bedrock).

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#418

Post by nottorp »

strogonoff wrote: post #416
nottorp wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Minecraft used to be a great example of such a game, until it got bought by Microsoft. Java edition still qualifies. Not sure for how much longer.

It fails on some points. There is a login screen (you must periodically connect to Microsoft’s servers), and accounts are reportedly locked until players provide Microsoft their phone number. The chat reporting feature being discussed here is a further example of restrictions on what you can do with the game you bought. If the free-to-play microtransaction-supported model is more financially appealing than allowing c…

> Next they will say because OSS allows bypassing or cheating the reporting they must close the source and limit mod API.

Not exactly on topic but what you say is funny. Minecraft Java has never been open source. Mods are done by decompiling the official jar, applying patches and recompiling back. I'm sure it's not explicitly allowed by whatever legalese surrounds MC.

This all goes for the one true Minecraft version, Java. Bedrock... they can keep it.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#419

Post by tiahura »

ouid wrote: post #275
tiahura wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm not threatening you. I'm not degrading you. I'm not doing anything to you except making you read the word FUCK. You, on the other hand, are actively trying to insult me. I feel like this undermines your argument.

There are very few safe online spaces for kids that kids actually want to utilize. If MS wants to make Minecraft into one, good for them.

If that impairs angry 13 year olds’ ability to cuss around kids - nobody cares.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#420

Post by openfuture »

doodlesdev wrote: post #243
openfuture wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Not yet. First we must(!) address the incentive problem in free software (and society) then things like minetest will outcompete things like minecraft naturally. The only reason it doesn't already is because developers can only get paid working on less valuable (read: closed) software. See: https://datalisp.is .

I'm a huge advocate of free software, but I've never actually seen a _true_ solution to the incentive problem when it comes to developing free software. Sure, there are ways to monetize free software projects, but honestly, if you want to make a lot of money, grow a company, hire developers and grow a huge user base, then closed source only benefits you (unfortunately). I'm not really sure how we can change that, spe…

Money is a social construct. Public goods are traditionally funded by taxes. Dual to taxing someone would be to print new money for everyone except that person. We need to pay ourselves and take ourselves seriously.
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