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“Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

nature.com

411–420 of 883 posts

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#411
post #6

Yet, people can be harmed indirectly. For example, research may — inadvertently — stigmatize individuals or human groups. It may be discriminatory, racist, sexist, ableist or homophobic. It may provide justification for undermining the human rights of specific groups, simply because of their social characteristics. [..] Advancing knowledge and understanding is a fundamental public good. In some cases, however, potent…

> ableist This seems like an implicit denial that people can have different abilities.

Yeah I never really got the whole "ableist" thing; for example, obviously someone who can't see is less capable of performing visual tasks than someone who can. Does that mean shipping a device with a screen is ableist because not everyone can take advantage of the fact that it has a screen?

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#412
This is nothing more than a way to manipulate scientific publication to empower white elites at the expense of both less privileged whites and minorities alike.

First, there is absolutely no hope of anything like this being applied in a fair and even handed way.

> Academic content that undermines the dignity or rights of specific groups; assumes that a human group is superior or inferior over another simply because of a social characteristic

Will the “dignity” of white people preclude publishing academic research suggesting there should be race segregated spaces in colleges? Will these rules be applied to protect the dignity of white Appalachians? Not a snowball’s chance in hell.

Second, insofar as elite whites have very different views of minorities than minorities themselves do, these rules will be used to suppress research that both comports with what minorities themselves believe and what the data could show is in their best interest. For example, Raj Chetty’s recent research showing that the two most important community factors for upward mobility for Black kids is (1) low racism among white people in the area; and (2) high levels of fathers present in the home (even if the child’s own father is not present): https://ifstudies.org/blog/for-black-boys-family-structure-s...

White liberal academics love the former finding but hate the latter finding, and these rules absolutely will distort the research that comes out as a result. (If you weren’t an Indian guy in the UK, might you be incentivized to just run with the first finding and not the second?)

> Yet, people can be harmed indirectly. For example, research may — inadvertently — stigmatize individuals or human groups. It may be discriminatory, racist, sexist, ableist or homophobic. It may provide justification for undermining the human rights of specific groups, simply because of their social characteristics.

And who gets to define what’s “racist?” “Good” white people: https://contexts.org/blog/who-gets-to-define-whats-racist/ (“Rather than actually dismantling white supremacy or meaningfully empowering people of color, efforts often seem to be oriented towards consolidating social and cultural capital in the hands of the ‘good’ whites.”).

Social sciences have so little credibility to begin with. They shouldn’t be shredding it by creating rules that will require them to put political concerns ahead of the truth.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens when we stop agreeing on what the “good” is? Did we ever agree? I always felt like Democracy is some kind of status quo between the incompatible.

In the 90s before mass internet adoption, it sure felt like it. We had disagreements, but nothing compared to what we see today.

Bullshit.

In the 90s, it was just easier to remain in a comfortable bubble of ignorance of just how violently people disagreed.

Today, the reality of the discord is shoved in our faces every day.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#414
Who cares? Federally funded research is going to be open access now. Nature is trying to remind everyone it exists the same day it was made obsolete.

The peer reviewed journal has not scaled well. Instead of actually ensuring the validity and integrity of claims it merely acts as a middle man extracting wealth. There re better ways to get the same benefit in the 21st century. Maybe if they actually verified experimental data they would still have a use. But they don't do that.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#415
"Satoshi Kanazawa suggested that evolution favors higher IQ in areas that are farther from the evolutionary origin of humans: sub-Saharan Africa." This sentence from Scientific American (which itself got it from a peer-reviewed paper) 'seems' racist. The publisher could reject it by saying this study can be used against sub-Saharan African. I don't know that relationship is valid or not but even if it's valid, scientist could not publish it.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#416
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but the trappings of science have been used to dress the new religion of the west. Same old shit, we just don’t call it god now, we call it “the science”. We are romans in the early 5th century. What’s coming won’t be pretty.

Isn’t it crazy how easy it is to see but how inevitable the outcome ultimately is? Why must future generations repeat the mistakes of the past? This is the human condition.

Because religion is the opiate of the masses.

It's too powerful of a manipulation and control tool for the elites to just give up on. If we can just replace "god says" with "science says" and have the same result of getting the sheep in line, then of course it will happen.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Advancing knowledge and understanding is a fundamental public good. In some cases, however, potential harms to the populations studied may outweigh the benefit of publication Are they really advocating for self censorship in the sciences? And when the whims of societal taste turn or, God forbid (and yes, I put this with all irony intended), Twitter decides it doesn't like an opinion for five minutes... does science…

David Shor was ostracized for presenting this research: https://www.vox.com/2020/7/29/21340308/david-shor-omar-wasow... > Shor, citing research by Princeton political scientist Omar Wasow, suggested that these incidents could prompt a political backlash that would help President Donald Trump’s bid for reelection. At the same time, he noted that, historically, nonviolent protests had been effective at driving politica…

The galling thing about this was that he was fire by a white-controlled organization for saying “people think rioting is bad.”

Rioting continued and democrats didn’t stand up and say “rioting is bad,” and as a result of that rioting the criminal justice movement was set back a decade.

In Minneapolis now Ilhan Omar barely won her primary because she wants to defund the police and even Black people want more cops: https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/minneapolis-polic...

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that’s not what the quoted text is saying. It’s saying research whose outcomes could be “harmful” (where the definition of “harmful” is very broad) may have harms that “outweigh” the benefits… implying it shouldn’t be done. And now you’ve attached a high leverage handle to research allocation/gatekeeping and put it in deeply politicized hands that don’t care about the research.

> And now you’ve attached a high leverage handle to research allocation/gatekeeping and put it in deeply politicized hands that don’t care about the research. It's the editorial board of a journal. Gatekeeping published research is literally their job, always has been. And I think it's fair to conclude from their vocation that they care more about the research and less about the politics than all the non-scientists w…

> And I think it's fair to conclude from their vocation that they care more about the research and less about the politics than all the non-scientists who've chimed in to express disagreement with the politics of their decision...

No, it's not fair to conclude.

A lot of us as practitioners in the field (engineers, data scientists, etc) must daily confront the conflict between social expectation (from managers, customers, etc.) and reality. On the other hand, an academic occupying a largely bureaucratic role within institutions that suffer from severe political monoculture might very well care more about their social standing than truth.

Anyone who has been paying attention will know the subtext of these guides. It is not an unreasonable assumption to see this as targeting legitimate scientific research that undermines the present political zeitgeist.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was immaculately conceived, walked on water, turned water into wine, all things that you and I know are inconsistent with reality. All those things are completely consistent with reality. Every year there are virgin births[0] (not immaculate conceptions[1], which is a term specific to the birth of the Virgin Mary herself), water turning into wine[2], and people walking on water[3]. I think what you mean is, the spe…

You're right. People forget things like: Jesus' disciples witnessed his miracles and wrote about them, other nonbiblical scholars wrote about Jesus and his miracles, there was recorded evidence to his death, there were witnesses to his ascension, 11 of the 12 apostles died for believing that Jesus was God (the 12th was Peter, marooned on Patmos, also for believing Jesus was God)

I was raised to believe the same propaganda.

It's not true.

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