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The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

papers.ssrn.com

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Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#411

Post by olalonde »

skinnymuch wrote: post #396
olalonde wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the Internet's utility is more obvious than Bitcoin. Bitcoin has little or even negative value to authoritarians. Even in more liberal countries, financial sovereignty and privacy are not generally viewed as important. But to me, this is just more reason to believe that the pace of adoption will be slow and gradual.

Bitcoin is an authoritarian’s wet dream as evidenced by the libertarian philosophies of crypto bros and how Bitcoin and crypto have played out. Showing authoritarian governments don’t like Bitcoin doesn’t help. Western conservatives and CCP’s social views are very similar. Yet they despise one another. Of course. Authoritarians want to be the ones in control. Why would they like other authoritarians?

First, your sentence makes no sense at all. Libertarianism is practically the opposite of authoritarianism. Libertarians are in favor of a small state with limited power. Authoritarians want the opposite.

Second, "Bitcoin being high value to authoritarians" is another way of saying that authoritarians like Bitcoin. There's a lot of evidence that they don't, and for good reason: they can't control it.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#412

Post by bubersson »

exabyte wrote: post #403
bubersson wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you post ln address, I can send you some sats so you can have a coffee on me :)

i think this post is old enough that i can post the page without worrying about the hug of death. if you wanna buy me a coffee you can go to https://emporium.atitlan.io :D in the comments just write "solo una prueba, no hagas este pedido"

Great experience, have some Latte ;)

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#413

Post by olalonde »

skinnymuch wrote: post #399
olalonde wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I see. I didn't mean that you could literally buy a Slurpee with BTC on your watch today. It was just a hypothetical example for how it could work in the future. There aren't many use cases for the "average Joe" for now. It's still the early days and not many merchants support it. So if you aren't particularly interested in the technology/philosophy nor have a use case for it, there's probably no compelling reaso…

13 years is not early days

Yeah, a metaphorical "early days". What I meant was that adoption level is still relatively low and there are still many infrastructure components and services that are lacking or incomplete.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#414

Post by skinnymuch »

olalonde wrote: post #411
skinnymuch wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is an authoritarian’s wet dream as evidenced by the libertarian philosophies of crypto bros and how Bitcoin and crypto have played out. Showing authoritarian governments don’t like Bitcoin doesn’t help. Western conservatives and CCP’s social views are very similar. Yet they despise one another. Of course. Authoritarians want to be the ones in control. Why would they like other authoritarians?

First, your sentence makes no sense at all. Libertarianism is practically the opposite of authoritarianism. Libertarians are in favor of a small state with limited power. Authoritarians want the opposite. Second, "Bitcoin being high value to authoritarians" is another way of saying that authoritarians like Bitcoin. There's a lot of evidence that they don't, and for good reason: they can't control it.

Cryptopunk dystopians are libertarian wet dreams as well as crypto bro wet dream.

The opposite of authoritarianism is anarchism. Anarchism and libertarians are not the same thing. One is hard left, the other is hard right. They can’t both be the opposite of authoritarianism.

Libertarians want to be the ones in power. Being in power is something authoritarians enjoy too. I already responded to the authoritarians not liking something does not mean anything about their principles or beliefs.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#415

Post by skinnymuch »

olalonde wrote: post #281
cortesoft wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can set up a stripe account to accept payments very easily. You can buy a prepaid Visa with cash in just a few minutes.

> You can set up a stripe account to accept payments very easily. Doesn't it require having a U.S. corporation? That's a few hundred dollars off the bat. It also requires you to provide evidence that you are within the types of businesses they authorize. I also suppose it requires having a bank account. Opening a business bank account does not take a few minutes and it can be close to impossible for certain categorie…

Stripe does not require having a business.

In the west, opening a business bank account does indeed take a few minutes. There’s more than enough that allow opening one online.

It isn’t needed for Stripe or many payment providers, so it’s a moot point. Same with many payment providers not requiring a business.

References: - https://support.stripe.com/questions/selling-on-stripe-witho... - https://www.statrys.com/blog/connect-stripe-bank

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#416

Post by skinnymuch »

notpushkin wrote: post #302
olalonde wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can set up a stripe account to accept payments very easily. Doesn't it require having a U.S. corporation? That's a few hundred dollars off the bat. It also requires you to provide evidence that you are within the types of businesses they authorize. I also suppose it requires having a bank account. Opening a business bank account does not take a few minutes and it can be close to impossible for certain categorie…

Stripe is not worldwide, but works pretty much everywhere in EU at least. You can open a company in Estonia in a couple hours (once you have a digital signature key, which they offer to everybody now, not just Estonian citizens [1]). Getting a bank account might be a bit trickier, but still doable (hint: Wise [2], while not a bank, might be an easier option). That said, Bitcoin is still a whole lot easier to accept,…

A business or business bank account isn’t needed, so it doesn’t matter. It’s the same with many payment providers. I linked to references for Stripe on this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=32102762

PayPal etc don’t require any business stuff. Being a traditional bank is unimportant for getting paid for online stuff.

There’s a lot of ways to get access to something that qualifies as a bank account. For example, Cash App got big because it provides what a bank account does and qualifies as one, even if it is not a traditional bank at all.

Once multiple apps are available worldwide as well as multiple ways to have a bank account or a bank account equivalent, why would cryptocurrency be the future?

Multiple apps are already available for the majority of the population. The west, India, and China alone are close to half the world population.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#417

Post by skinnymuch »

olalonde wrote: post #410
dmitriid wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was asking about fiat because many of your criticisms equally apply to fiat. They... don't. > I answered that multiple times already. You haven't. All you're saying "o let's have this centralised trusted entity that does something with blockchain because blockchain". > That's, unfortunately, the case for almost anything of value. If bitcoin is a currency as you would have us believe, then this is not what a curre…

I didn't dismiss anything out of hand, I replied to all your questions as objectively as possible, but you just pretend that I didn't. I also would not have you believe anything, I am not trying to sell you anything here. I just answered your questions because I believed they were genuine questions. I am now starting to question that... My question to you: what is your alternative? USD has many of the problems you me…

Pretending you’re not a crypto proponent is funny while trying to imply the other person isn’t genuine.

They already said fiat doesn’t have close to the same issues as crypto. The monetary inflation benefits to the wealthy are nowhere near the same for Bitcoin or any crypto. It’s a fraction of how bad Bitcoin is. They also basically said that multiple times too.

They have answered the rest too. Being on chain isn’t an issue for fiat because they aren’t trying to be on chain. They aren’t trying to shoehorn in blockchain.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#418

Post by skinnymuch »

dmitriid wrote: post #404
olalonde wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you extend the same reasoning to fiat? I was asking about fiat because many of your criticisms equally apply to fiat. > No. The question is: what does the trustless blockchain offer when you still have to rely on a centralised trusted entity. I answered that multiple times already. > Which immediately means that whoever got in early and got the first initial supply is at great advantage compared to anyone who go…

> I was asking about fiat because many of your criticisms equally apply to fiat. They... don't. > I answered that multiple times already. You haven't. All you're saying "o let's have this centralised trusted entity that does something with blockchain because blockchain". > That's, unfortunately, the case for almost anything of value. If bitcoin is a currency as you would have us believe, then this is not what a curre…

Now they have turned to acting like you aren’t genuine in their next reply, haha. When they actually tried to pull a “I don’t know if I’m a crypto proponent”

Yes the last line is a recurring one lol.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#419

Post by smoldesu »

aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #409
imtringued wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was obvious the moment Freicoin died. That currency quite literally couldn't be used for speculation. It's only potential use case was as a medium of exchange and that didn't happen.

Right, only that one proved this theory of yours — not the other 3000 competitors just like it, by your metric

I mean, they could expand their sample size and the situation wouldn't be any different. Shitcoins come and go, but even the most benevolent of cryptocurrencies don't have a real shot at widespread success.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#420

Post by exabyte »

bubersson wrote: post #412
exabyte wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think this post is old enough that i can post the page without worrying about the hug of death. if you wanna buy me a coffee you can go to https://emporium.atitlan.io :D in the comments just write "solo una prueba, no hagas este pedido"

Great experience, have some Latte ;)

Thank you!! I can't wait to drink my latte with uhhhhh cacao, honey, maple syrup, panela, rum and milk if you ever find yourself down here next coffee's on me !
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