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Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

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Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#411

Post by ch4s3 »

beowulfey wrote: post #334
mdavis6890 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations cannot put me in jail. Corporations cannot (for the most part) just take my money. Other than denying me service, corporations have little power over me, except that which is granted to them by the government itself. Government tracking has the potential to be much worse than corporate tracking. (I think I'm agreeing with your post, but I'm not sure)

In theory, a democratic government is supposed to be beholden to its people, but the problem you are describing occurs when the government is no longer under the power of the population.

Or if you’re part of a disfavored minority.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#412

Post by vetinari »

ako wrote: post #405
WanderPanda wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

If you consider all the school shootings in the US the claim that government has a monopoly on violence is nonsense. There’s plenty of non governmental violence.

He meant the legal one.

It is a core concept of law and statehood; if you consider it nonsense, you consider statehood of your country to be the same.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#413

Post by PartiallyTyped »

DeathArrow wrote: post #125

The ideological left push us more and more towards a dystopic future. Which doesn't seem very distant.

It isn't the left that keeps pushing authoritarianism around the world, see Orban, Putin, Trump, DeSantis, Abbott and the likes.

Touch some grass.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#414

Post by baq »

WanderPanda wrote: post #293
wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

at sufficient scale the difference between governments and corporations is negligible. east india company would be the most obvious example, but there's plenty nowadays.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#415

Post by rglullis »

guerrilla wrote: post #408
rglullis wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, it is still illegal to have a monopoly and the government can break a company apart if it starts abusing its power. Now, who can break the Government apart if it starts abusing its power?

If you had checked, you'd know monopolies are not illegal. It's discretionary regulation and impotent in many cases. Power comes in many forms. States fall for many reasons, but primarily causes are war and revolution (which are sometimes the same thing.)

Monopolies are illegal if established through improper conduct and anti-competitive practices. The exceptions would be for State-owned or State-granted monopolies... Amazon is neither of those.

> States fall for many reasons, but primarily causes are war and revolution

So, the way to get rid of Amazon would be to get the Government to simply start a judicial process against a company. The way to get rid of the Government would require bloodshed. Can we agree that that n corrupt and power-abusive Government is far more dangerous than Amazon (or any other corporation) could ever be?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#416

Post by baq »

mdavis6890 wrote: post #243
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. The usual consequence for getting tracked at the supermarket is getting a discount on certain groceries via a loyalty program, with zero downsides for…

Corporations cannot put me in jail. Corporations cannot (for the most part) just take my money. Other than denying me service, corporations have little power over me, except that which is granted to them by the government itself. Government tracking has the potential to be much worse than corporate tracking. (I think I'm agreeing with your post, but I'm not sure)

corporations cannot put you in jail if law enforcement works.

if the government fails, corporations can and will put you in jail.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#417

Post by Amezarak »

HWR_14 wrote: post #257
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. The usual consequence for getting tracked at the supermarket is getting a discount on certain groceries via a loyalty program, with zero downsides for…

> I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. I'm sure it has, it's just done in a subtle manner you don't notice. > What is the worst realistic consequence for a government...tracking all grocery purchases? As many other posters have noted, it's reasonable to imagine a progressive sin tax: That was…

> That was determined by a democracy.

Concentration camps, extrajudicial killings, racial violence, anti-labor violence, mass surveillance, and torture have all been done by democracies too.

"We're a democracy" in Europe and the US, generally speaking, means a tiny subset of the government is democratically elected and responsible for setting high-level policy goals. It doesn't mean the government as a whole carries out the will of the people on an even regular basis or always has their best interests at heart. We should be very careful about giving any powerful organization, government or corporate, more power (and information is power) regardless of its nominal method of governance.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#418

Post by missedthecue »

guerrilla wrote: post #366
missedthecue wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have to go back a two centuries to prove a point, you're probably not right.

They're called Securitas today and are very much active, they're often contracted out to by states. They're also notoriously corrupt and abusive.[1] 1. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitas#Kritik

Securitas is contracted by the state to run background checks and do other paper-pushing activities. They do not kill people under their own prerogative.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#419

Post by guerrilla »

rglullis wrote: post #415
guerrilla wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had checked, you'd know monopolies are not illegal. It's discretionary regulation and impotent in many cases. Power comes in many forms. States fall for many reasons, but primarily causes are war and revolution (which are sometimes the same thing.)

Monopolies are illegal if established through improper conduct and anti-competitive practices. The exceptions would be for State-owned or State-granted monopolies... Amazon is neither of those. > States fall for many reasons, but primarily causes are war and revolution So, the way to get rid of Amazon would be to get the Government to simply start a judicial process against a company. The way to get rid of the Govern…

> Monopolies are illegal if

You're moving the goalpost and still wrong [1]. I don't know why you want to talk about this so badly if you don't know what you're talking about. Anyway, as I said, it's discretionary regulation and power comes in many forms.

> The way to get rid of the Government would require bloodshed.

You don't need to get rid of "the government" if you control the state and everyone's minds via lobbying, corruption, propaganda and other means.

> Can we agree that that n corrupt and power-abusive Government is far more dangerous than Amazon (or any other corporation) could ever be?

Absolutely not. "The government" is the puppet, the owners of companies like Amazon are the puppeteers. Power comes in many forms. Coercion comes in many forms.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#420

Post by guerrilla »

missedthecue wrote: post #418
guerrilla wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're called Securitas today and are very much active, they're often contracted out to by states. They're also notoriously corrupt and abusive.[1] 1. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitas#Kritik

Securitas is contracted by the state to run background checks and do other paper-pushing activities. They do not kill people under their own prerogative.

Nope, that is absolutely false. They fulfill police duties in Sweden. Prior to that they were ubiquitous security guards and engaged in violence daily.
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