Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

tutanota.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 431 posts

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#411

Post by flavius29663 »

a-dub wrote: post #403
flavius29663 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about parent control, it's about people doing horrible porn with toddlers and then distributing it to other adults.

yeah. maybe parental controls so parents know who their kids are talking to paired with good old fashioned undercover detective work might be a preferable approach to eastern bloc style listening posts. if you want to get fancy, maybe build undercover chat bots or sophisticated honey pots.

but undercover detective work is hard, spying on everyone is easy

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#412

Post by shakna »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #390
shakna wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile France last year just dropped the age of consent to 15 and if you check Wikipedia you'll most EU countries have it set around the same age. France's age of consent has been 15, since 1945 (1982, if you weren't straight). What they did last year was add a Romeo & Juliet clause that allows for below that age if you're within five years of your partner and not committing something that would otherwise be con…

15 vs 12 is huge gap in relative age, development, and maturity. But it sounds worse from your description, like a 15yo can have sex with a 10yo and it's considered consensual??

It is _now_ that a 15yro and a 10yro _may_ be considered consensual if no other factors come into play, like authority. However, the court would have to examine it on a case-by-case basis.

Previously, it was _assumed_ that consent occurred. Such as in the case I pointed out - the court struggled to say there was not willing engagement between a 28 yro and an 11 yro.

Historically speaking, France has some of the loosest laws around consent in the world.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#413

Post by chillingeffect »

mhh__ wrote: post #356
eru wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have watched 'All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace' by the same guy. If that stuff is anything to go by, Adam Curtis long on insinuation and clever cuts, and short on actual insight. Beware of Gell-Mann Amnesia. Btw, I suspect politicians always used the protection-from-nightmares just as much as promising utopia.

I agree. Curtis complains about narrative building and hypernormalisation, when he is arguably doing both of those things every time he speaks. The tune of the poem is more important than the words to him.

Urm clarify plz how one documentarian can hypernormalize? It's a collaborative work by many parties w overlapping interests. Over time. Using vast resources.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#414

Post by mhh__ »

chillingeffect wrote: post #413
mhh__ wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Curtis complains about narrative building and hypernormalisation, when he is arguably doing both of those things every time he speaks. The tune of the poem is more important than the words to him.

Urm clarify plz how one documentarian can hypernormalize? It's a collaborative work by many parties w overlapping interests. Over time. Using vast resources.

Because he likes making up cute narratives with usually 0 citations, it's all about the tune, not the words.

Lots of people listen to him, he isn't just some guy.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#415

Post by chillingeffect »

mhh__ wrote: post #414
chillingeffect wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urm clarify plz how one documentarian can hypernormalize? It's a collaborative work by many parties w overlapping interests. Over time. Using vast resources.

Because he likes making up cute narratives with usually 0 citations, it's all about the tune, not the words. Lots of people listen to him, he isn't just some guy.

>Lots

Same could be said for David Attenborough or Errol Morris, but that's not enough influence to be called "hypernormalization." Shining a light on how power functions is a gnatbite to, say, lawmakers banning abortion and homelessness, enforcing building codes, drafting a generation of males to war, engaging in armed combat against miners, etc. Even a documentarian with a mirrored ideology, say, Steve Bannon couldn't be said to be hypernormalizing- only communicating.

> citations

I re-watched some of "Century of Self" [0] to evaluate this statement. Much of it is primary sources: interviews.

[0] https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#416

Post by soco »

stef25 wrote: post #133
dorfsmay wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet you regularly hear of child porn cases in the US because a 17 year old girl sent pictures of her nude body to her 18 year old boyfriend.

Yes, in the US. Meanwhile France last year just dropped the age of consent to 15 and if you check Wikipedia you'll most EU countries have it set around the same age. It's doubtful you could even find a single case someone being prosecuted because their actual underage boy / girlfriend sent them an explicit picture.

I know two different convictions over preteen porn received from Whatsapp contacts. Does this count?

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#417

Post by peoplefromibiza »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #404
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU's government isn't perfect Do you know someone or something that is? I don't. > I don't see any safeguards in this proposal. then write one and propose it! or look better. >It's ripe for abuse. BY WHOM EXACTLY? AND WHY? > Utterly fanciful. Once this exists and is in place, it can and will be expanded to other things. Are you from the future or simply doubling down on your opinions, trying to pose them as une…

You mean like German police using the data from COVID tracing apps, although legally they should not be used for anything except virus tracing? Or it doesn't count since Germany is not a democracy?

> Or it doesn't count since Germany is not a democracy?

you say that as a joke, but it's not completely false.

Half of Germany was still a dystopian 1984esque state 30 years ago. Those people are still alive, those kids are adults now. It doesn't surprise me at all that it can happen.

Anyway, it was one case in a small city where they tracked a witness of a crime, they didn't "destroy the privacy of all European citizenzs to create a surveillance state in EU"

Besides, WhatsApp and IG have the same (if not much more) metadata, given by the users while simply using the app, that are already being abused in any possible way. including selling them.

At least a tracing app is explicitly for tracing.

I never used a tracing app for COVID, problem solved.

But people (even my mom!) use WhatsApp, I can't escape that and can't escape Facebook knowing who I cal. when, for how long, even if the messages are encrypted, metadata is not.

I would very much prefer a call from the police to help them solve a crime than FB sending me unsolicited ads or worse.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#418

Post by peoplefromibiza »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #336
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The automated filter won't care about the context though That's why we have a justice system. Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se. People are innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof's on the prosecution. We are talking about EU here, not Sudan.

Being arrested and dragged into court to defend yourself will seriously negatively impact your life all on its own.

You can't be arrested over alleged crimes here.

The police can't drag you in jail and then in court, we are civilized people,they send a letter to you notifying you that they are investigating you and you have a right to the defense.

That's all.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#419

Post by peoplefromibiza »

School-Cotton wrote: post #396
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless, if debating in good faith you should respond to what people clearly mean, not to what you feel the words they’re using should mean in “correct” English. you're wrong: I never said I was using the correct English, I said that in the English that I have studied it is called a government. It's called government here too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Italy#Executive_... I'm not making up words…

You (probably intentionally) cut off the exact part of the quote that entirely changes its meaning. You are engaging in bad-faith pedantry, and this discussion is now a waste of time.

> You are engaging in bad-faith pedantry, and this discussion is now a waste of time.

I cut the irrelevant part, I always assume people say things that represent "what they understood or meant".

In that case the original post saying " you haven't had 67 governments in the way I mean" is completely useless, irrelevant, pedantic and in the end brought us to this conversation

Nobody cares what "government" means to an american when the context is not America.

Believe it or not, USA is only a tiny fraction of the World population and that tony fraction is in a good part not American too.

What Americans think, believe or mean is irrelevant to 95.75% of the Planet.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#420

Post by momenti »

Avamander wrote: post #405
schroeding wrote: post #114

The worst thing is that, while the EU proposes dubious stuff like this, the police doesn't actually try to remove such content from the internet or are at least really ineffective at doing so. There was a documentary[1] from the german public tv station NDR in which reporters / journalists managed to delete the majority of content from one such CSAM forum, by sending deletion requests to the hosters. The police just.…

A lot of cybercrime is like that, the police are very incompetent at handling it. I've seen a criminal literally logged in with their personal account (with 2FA, home address etc.) and the case was dropped because they wouldn't/couldn't identify the person. I don't think they even attempted. Botnets are annoying to dismantle even within the EU, it's not even illegal in some countries to not remove reported malware. I…

If they were too competent these bureaucracies would abolish themselves, or at least decimate their own funding.
Post reply on HN