Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#411

Post by spaniard89277 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

ejb999 wrote: post #384

msrenee wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was told repeatedly starting at probably 12 years old that I'd never see my social security benefits pay out. Probably before that too, but I distinctly remember it around middle school. It was very similar to what the comment you're replying to describes. Just because you're not planning your retirement doesn't mean you're not picking up on cues from people who are.

I was told that as well 40-45 years ago, and yet, here we are 40+ years later and lo-and-behold it is still paying benefits.

Some countries are literally paying pensions with ECB money, screwing everyone else in the process even more.

An many are just about to have the same.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#412

Post by Gareth321 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:10 AM UTC

DrSiemer wrote: post #145

abdel_nasser wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly. the equation has changed. people who dont fit in are now even more fucked. everyone is obligated to play this high stakes game that nobody asked for and that wasnt filtered through any kind of intelligent societal deliberation. nobody seems to be worried that kids make the rules in public schools, they bully each other viciously and kids who graduate from the system cant point to the country of portugal on a…

But most of them become very skilled in navigating the social media landscape, which is what actually matters to them. And the people that don't fit in will usually put more energy in other ways to express themselves and have a much higher chance of becoming Truly Interesting People, if they make it through that pressure cooker. It's tough and I'm glad I'm not a part of it, but it's not the end of all cohesion in soc…

That's kind of the issue. A lot of them are committing suicide. Many more end up permanently scarred. Mental health issues are no joke. The author, Haidt, will himself recommend the concept of anti-fragility. Which is essentially toughening kids through gradual and manageable amounts of adversity. Yet even he sees no value in social media for this process. In other words, social media is not a net good for kids. They don't end up more well-adjusted as human beings.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#413

Post by adastra22 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:14 AM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #201

fatherzine wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As adults everything will be on a screen. Might as well start getting good at it." With all kindness, this is a bit defeatist. True, chances are they'll spend most of their lives sitting in front of a screen. That's no excuse to skip exercising and neglect physical form. Likewise, they need to develop healthy screen habits, which is stay as far away as humanly possible from screens, or else be devoured by them.

Haha, its only defeatist if you think there is something wrong with screens :)

There is much more to life than staring at a screen.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#414

Post by hilbert42 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:14 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

I'm not denying that those issues all contribute to the problem.

However, teenagers had a terrible, rotten time during WWII - bombs on cites, constant threat of military service, parents and elder brothers killed in war, one's country being invaded, etc. yet on the whole most never suffered these mental health issues. The difference is striking

Somehow, they had stamina and resilience that today's teenagers don't have. Many of today's problems I believe go back to over-protection and mollycoddling of kids when they are very young. In the War years a kid was an independent agent by the time he or she was six.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#415

Post by LightG » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:17 AM UTC

tgv wrote: post #167

paxys wrote: post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

> Multiple major recessions One. They lived through one major recession, and here it wasn't really major, and is not something they lived through recently. They were younger than 6 when it started. I've lived through two. The 80s weren't a happy time, and there are no signs that that had such an impact on teen mental health. If it did, it would be proof that the impact of a major recession is temporary. > prospect of…

I absolutely believe that much of social media is a cess pit at the behest of the advertising industry.

For some it will be liberation and an incredible tool to leverage but for many it will be just a waste of their life and even, for some, the end of their lives. I left Facebook years ago and recently left Twitter for higher quality sources.

But ... your "One." is distasteful ...

The GFC caused a decade of austerity and quiet unseen cuts in support and public service. If we agree there should, in fact, be some form of safety net, they had had many holes cut in that net in the last 15 years.

Where I am, I was one of the last who had their Uni tuition paid for, I had a relatively fun time growing up, my wife and I bought a property when they had gone through multiple incredible price increases, we have just paid off a mortgage, no matter what happens next short of a world war, we'll be ok. I cannot imagine how we would have done that in today's enviroment ... look beyond this forum and your own experience.

I feel absolutely gutted for the continuous squeeze the generation that followed me have endured. And, considering the outlook, the next recession seems on its way just to compound things at a time when exogenous inflation is all the rage.

It's a mess.

So, please hold both factors in mind. Social media is the cesspit that has amplified just an incredible economics and political mess of the last 15 years.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#416

Post by adastra22 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:17 AM UTC

itronitron wrote: post #333

elevaet wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent of a 10 and 7yo your insight here is absolutely golden. I worry a lot about my kids getting sucked into that world. Right now we're keeping them well away from social media, and very little and restricted screen time. Your comment gives me confidence that this is the right approach, but I'm not sure yet how to navigate it as they enter their teenage years and all their friends have phones. We are leaning…

If I could go back and change one thing about my teenagers' educations it would be to homeschool them during the middle school years. They go from ~30 interpersonal relationships in elementary school to upwards of ~150 to ~210 in middle school at a time when they, or their classmates, are beginning adolescence.

Why is that a bad thing?

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#417

Post by grvdrm » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #143

silisili wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar, but different. I don't let my child use social media at all, and limited to 30 mins screen time total a day. She's excluded in that all her friends use TikTok, and she can't. Maybe it's for the best. My parents used to say 'if all your friends jumped off a bridge...', and I hated it, so I haven't used that one yet. I'm trying to rely on actual merits instead of follower cliches.

I don't understand such strict screen time limits. As adults everything will be on a screen. Might as well start getting good at it. My kids are I will even let them back on the computer in the evening after dinner if they want to do programming or level editing in Roblox, or make music in garage band, or something else creative.

Rather than dive into screen vs. no screen - let me ask: what games are they interacting with? I'm at the very least curious to have a look.

I think the screen vs. no screen debate misses another important point: what am I doing while they're watching something or interacting with a screen? Kids certainly need their own play time and autonomy. But what I don't like about screen time for my kids is the easy excuse it gives me to not pay attention to them.

So, no judgement on the screen vs. no screen from me. That 30 minutes from the TV can my time to zone out too. But it can also be, instead, 30 minutes during which I teach them something/play with them/etc. rather than let the screen take over.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#418

Post by unicornfinder » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:25 AM UTC

hilbert42 wrote: post #414

paxys wrote: post #68

Social media definitely amplifies it, but consider the economic and social environment that teenagers have lived through their entire lives. Multiple major recessions, a global pandemic, rising inflation, housing and education getting more expensive by the day, prospect of a mountain of debt right after graduation, climate that will be unlivable in a few decades, political extremism becoming the norm, and massive gov…

I'm not denying that those issues all contribute to the problem. However, teenagers had a terrible, rotten time during WWII - bombs on cites, constant threat of military service, parents and elder brothers killed in war, one's country being invaded, etc. yet on the whole most never suffered these mental health issues. The difference is striking Somehow, they had stamina and resilience that today's teenagers don't hav…

Indeed but I think again information does have a role to play here. Back then everyone around you was going through the same shit and you learned to deal with it.

Now you have social media giving a constant reminder that you're not good enough and that you need to achieve more.

Conversely I do agree that there is a bit of a "learned helplessness" that I've noticed is a bit more prevalent in the younger generations, and I can't work out if that's a symptom or a cause.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#419

Post by yunohn » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:25 AM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #329

ben_w wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both for you and the person you are replying to, I would caution that “Europe” isn’t one country like the USA, even just the EU is 27 smaller countries in a trenchcoat — the average may be lower, but bits are higher. University tuition is wildly variable and not directly proportional to income: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuition_payments (Housing costs are also wildly variable, but I don’t know where to get enough…

Generally speaking, cost of living is proportional to income; I could move inside my small country to a place twice as big, but if I were to get a job close to where I live it'd slash my wages by a lot to the point where I wouldn't actually be able to live there. That said, if you can work remotely, you can move south or east and live a lot cheaper. It just has to be your thing to move to a new country.

> if you can work remotely, you can move south or east and live a lot cheaper. It just has to be your thing to move to a new country.

“The solution to these problems is to exploit systemic economic inequalities by leveraging remote work for income arbitrage”

I don’t understand why HN keeps repeating this “solution”.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#420

Post by shuger » Thu, May 05, 2022, 10:26 AM UTC

wackro wrote: post #370

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The impact isn't massive just on mental health, but also on general productivity and people's social lives. It's just way too addicting. My main app of choice is YouTube and it's just astonishing how much amazing educational content there is on the app. MIT OpenCourseware, 3Blue1Brown, PBS Eons, SmarterEveryDay, ... and I could go on and on.... DESPITE THIS, their recommendations and the YouTube search has gotten s…

I remember reading part of a study a few years ago that noted that youtube was the only social media (in the study) that didn't negatively affect mental health. In fact it had a slight positive impact. If I find it I will link it, but here's an article in a similar vein: https://www.psychalive.org/worst-mental-health-instagram-fac... So yes, the search is obviously geared towards engagement. But not at the cost of me…

To be fair youtube is not really social media in traditional sense. It's more of a content delivery platform. It's not a place where you go to watch pixtures from your friends holiday or political hot takes but more traditional entertainment.