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Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

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411–420 of 476 posts

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that's why smart sw eng should start transitioning into management...

Forget that, approaching 60, still code every day. Management is for those who have management skills and want to do it. Coding is for the rest of us who want it. Saw how strong software would be as a kid in the 1970's and realized it was an industry whose dynamics were unlike any other industry, ever.

Unfortunately brilliant software engineers are often managed by, what Steve Jobs called "bozos". That's why eng need to step up and do what they would never otherwise do and start managing. Otherwise bozos will keep gain power and being in control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JVJdKnbZu8

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate your insight. I believe you're speaking accurately from your own experiences, but I do have another anecdotal countering viewpoint. Like many on HN I went to a top engineering school. there I saw about 2/3 of my colleagues drop out within the first two years. At least half of them worked tirelessly and efficiently to pursue their goal, and still failed. This was a large public school that will admit basica…

Engineering programs especially in top schools are way too hard for what's required to learn programming. And by top school I mean a top school that admits less than 10% of applicants. These programs are way more challenging than normal. Failing one of these programs does not mean you can program. Also when I say anyone can do it, I mean anyone with around an average IQ or above. Obviously if you're mentally challeng…

> Learning programming is not easy...discipline or the study habits...necessary studying to succeed... spend the time to grind...

Programming is what I did obsessively as a teenager. I didn't need any discipline or study habits. It was and still is exciting and creative. This is aptitude and interest, which obviously, few have.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering programs especially in top schools are way too hard for what's required to learn programming. And by top school I mean a top school that admits less than 10% of applicants. These programs are way more challenging than normal. Failing one of these programs does not mean you can program. Also when I say anyone can do it, I mean anyone with around an average IQ or above. Obviously if you're mentally challeng…

>I've went to schools where they admit anyone with a pulse and I've also been to actual top schools that are highly selective. I can tell you these programs that admit anyone feel significantly easier because they are. Doing well in one of these schools is not an achievement. I remember coming out top of the class at these schools simply studying for a test the night before. Lol K bro, I didn't say this to brag, I sa…

>I don't think being good at engineering school is an 'achievement' or a sign of superiority, I just think it means you may be wired differently than some other people -- that's it. The school in question I'm referring to is ranked in the top 10 of US engineering programs

Bro, I went to a top 10 as well, and it's also not a private school. I'm telling you that it doesn't matter. Doing well in a school that has zero selectivity is not an achievement because you're competing with many people who don't even have the drive to succeed. Of course a huge number will be fodder for you to step on. Sure you're school is hard.. but that's a different kind of hard.

At a selective school, every student you're with has drive and has consistently placed number 1 at every previous school they've been at. The classes and challenge are normalized so that just being number one is now average or even below average. This is hard on another level.

>Many of the more 'highly selective' private programs are actually easier because they milk you dry in tuition and they want to keep the dollars flowing, so they will coddle you along.

Not true at all. Again, Selective programs normalize what is easy among top students. The curve becomes insanely steeper. Schools allow you to change majors to keep milking the dollars but they still fail you out of the class.

>Believe it or not there are public schools that will take essentially anyone with a pulse into engineering, and a handful of the more challenging and highly ranked engineering programs are included. These are not 'easy' programs, and attrition rates far exceed other programs at the same university. Personally I approve of this approach because it allows anyone to try their hand rather than depending on BS criteria like standardized testing or high school performance, or other dumb factors like whether your parents had the strings to pull in a non-profit to make you look like mother teresa. The kind of person who succeeds at engineering is often not the kind who has an impressive background coming out of highschool.

I never said it's easy. But it certainly is easier. Let's do a quantitative analysis then. Anyone with a pulse and let's say they fail out 75%. That's equivalent to a 25% pass rate. Then take a look at a selective school with a (in my case 20% failure rate and 10% acceptance). That's about 8% pass rate assuming anyone with a pulse applies (of course this is not the case, better performing students tend to apply).

By that number alone you know how much harder it is in a selective school. And the 20% failure rate is just a random guess, could be much higher than that as tons of kids switch majors after their first weeder class. Realistically I give it 50% failure rate if you count people who switch.

>The number of people who received, or would be able to receive, an ABET accredited engineering degree at the top of their class from any of say the top dozen engineering schools while simply 'studying for a test the night before' is a much rarer trait than you think. Either you're unaware of your exceptional aptitude or you were blind to your surroundings.

Let's caveat something here. I passed top of my class and studied the night before in a non-selective school. The other school I transferred to, (a top school) I could not do this. Also ABET is garbage, let's be clear about that. Many top engineering schools have certain programs that are ABET accredited, and many schools with ABET accredited programs are easy.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked up to 60 hours a week (I'd say avg 50) from the time I was 13 years old making $6 an hour. It was backbreaking, grueling labor. But not a coal mine so no risk of black lung, so I guess everything is okay? Or maybe my parents should have taken advantage of economic opportunities that didn't exist (they looked, constantly, for options). This was in the US. Most of the time I did my homework in school, cramming…

Would your family have been better off if the income from your $6/hr job was lost? I presume this work was beneficial to your family somehow, otherwise you wouldn't have engaged in it.

Is "better off [economically]" you're guide on ethical labor practices? I don't want to read too much into your comment, but that is the implication, in which case any labor practice can be justified so long as someone is willing to do it. That's a rather extreme view.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#415
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a senator or representative Most of us don't, but I've been looking at the lobbying numbers and they don't seem that expensive. I think with crowd funding and smart targeting of the money it might not be that difficult to buy change.

Are you suggesting we should crowd fund to get the money for politicians elected by the people to actually for the people?

The Onion "suggested" this 12 years ago.

https://www.theonion.com/american-people-hire-high-powered-l...

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've went to schools where they admit anyone with a pulse and I've also been to actual top schools that are highly selective. I can tell you these programs that admit anyone feel significantly easier because they are. Doing well in one of these schools is not an achievement. I remember coming out top of the class at these schools simply studying for a test the night before. Lol K bro, I didn't say this to brag, I sa…

>I don't think being good at engineering school is an 'achievement' or a sign of superiority, I just think it means you may be wired differently than some other people -- that's it. The school in question I'm referring to is ranked in the top 10 of US engineering programs Bro, I went to a top 10 as well, and it's also not a private school. I'm telling you that it doesn't matter. Doing well in a school that has zero s…

>I never said it's easy. But it certainly is easier. Let's do a quantitative analysis then. Anyone with a pulse and let's say they fail out 75%. That's equivalent to a 25% pass rate. Then take a look at a selective school with a (in my case 20% failure rate and 10% acceptance). That's about 8% pass rate assuming anyone with a pulse applies (of course this is not the case, better performing students tend to apply).

>By that number alone you know how much harder it is in a selective school.

You really don't. All you proved was that 80% (or whatever) of those who the school selected would pass. You know nothing of what percent of those who they didn't select would pass. You can't possibly make the assertion it would be lower than 25% example you gave for the "anyone with a pulse school."

I don't doubt you probably went to a more rigorous, challenging, and renowned school than me. I don't doubt you are more intelligent than myself or many who did well at my school. The fallacy comes when you conflate entrance selectivity with difficulty.

> I passed top of my class and studied the night before in a non-selective school.

Can you help explain to me why you went from a top non-selective public school to a different top selective school? In my experience after the first couple years everyone but the cream was filtered out, so by junior year it was effectively like I was in a 'selective' school. Or are you comparing a lower tier non-selective engineering school to a top selective school? My point of reference here is one of the handful of non-selective top-10 schools.

>Many top engineering schools have certain programs that are ABET accredited, and many schools with ABET accredited programs are easy.

Agreed. Was just providing some baseline for roughly the curriculum that was covered. You're right that ABET on its own doesn't speak thoroughly to the program, which is why I used a variety of other qualifiers beyond ABET.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would your family have been better off if the income from your $6/hr job was lost? I presume this work was beneficial to your family somehow, otherwise you wouldn't have engaged in it.

Is "better off [economically]" you're guide on ethical labor practices? I don't want to read too much into your comment, but that is the implication, in which case any labor practice can be justified so long as someone is willing to do it. That's a rather extreme view.

Answer my question and I'll be happy to answer yours in kind. Please note 'economically' was added by you. I genuinely wondered if you and your family would be better off in general, not just economically. Usually economic effects have greater effects on the family outside of the economic outlook. It would be strange indeed if you toiled for years doing something to create a net hurt to your family.

I will say if you engaged in some unethical labor practices to help your family while earning those $6, I personally could look past them to some extent. I assume you did this to help your family survive so anything unethical you did was out of necessity. Personally I withhold judgement.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#418

> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…

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Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#419
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody suggested making an amazon warehouse tornado-proof? You don't build a house to be tornado-proof. You have a tornado shelter. You build it at ground level with sloped sides, or below ground. Cargo ships have life boats, so do oil rigs. If you've got a warehouse with hundreds of people in an area with lots of tornadoes, you build tornado shelters sufficient to accommodate them. Cost of doing business in an area…

Sigh. There WAS a tornado shelter. And they went there. But tornado shelters can't survive direct hits (which are rare). Are you interested in the facts of the case, or just criticizing anything and everything?

If it's underground, how is there a direct hit... did the tornado Tunnel down?
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