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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#411

Post by vinceguidry »

wolverine876 wrote: post #336
vinceguidry wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love HN entitlement. It's not just the waitress. It's also the kitchen staff, which has to fulfill the orders. Low-cost special menus like brunch menus make their money on volume. At least half the food service equation relies on the kitchen to whip the orders out in time. Special requests slow the entire kitchen down. Not a problem if, say, there's not a huge rush. But a huge problem if the staff is slammed. M…

charge more for special orders?

Like, if you're Waffle House and short-order is your bread and butter, sure. But a lot of times the kitchen will pre-set up things so they can get them out as fast as possible. There's a lot of management and prep that goes into cheap Sunday brunch that gets tossed out the window.

Like I said earlier, it's fine during normal biz hours. But the 30 seconds of extra time the kitchen staff has to put into your special order during a huge rush puts all the orders behind it 30 seconds more behind. So a whole family ordering special orders can hold up 20 people's orders for 5 minutes. And that just builds up the more it happens.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#412

Post by ashtonkem »

sumtechguy wrote: post #407
ashtonkem wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a popular pizza chain for high school and got maybe $10 in tips my entire time there . My pregnant coworker meanwhile averaged an extra $50 or more a night. Given that I was paid minimum wage at the time ($4.25 IIRC), that extra $50 in tips was a significant boost to her income. Now on one hand I think it's fair that a pregnant woman needs more money than a high school kid who's saving up for extra toys (…

Very much so. It is situation dependent and in your case time dependent. 4.25 was nearly 25+ years ago at this point. Tips have unfortunately morphed into this 'this is how I get paid', instead of 'I like you, here is some extra'. We went from a system that was semi fair to one of capriciousness and pettiness. I once watched a dude dump out of a tip because the server didnt bring him a straw.

> 4.25 was nearly 25+ years ago at this point.

Nope! The minimum wage in Ohio was $4.25 in 2005, 17 years ago. It has however gone up since then significantly to $9.30 today.

I agree with the rest of your post though. The capriciousness and pettiness is very real, and doesn’t reflect super great on our society imho.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#413

Post by bradleyjg »

HWR_14 wrote: post #260
bradleyjg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurant owners do not like it. For them it means a fixed percentage of revenue has to go to the front of house. Also, it means that waitstaff will side with the customer’s interests over the restaurant’s. Consider for example a round of free drinks at a bar—increases the tip but costs the bar. Restaurant owners that have tried to eliminate tipping find a) customers are uncomfortable and sometimes try to tip anyway…

> Restaurant owners do not like it. For them it means a fixed percentage of revenue has to go to the front of house. Reducing fixed period costs (e.g. labor costs of servers, rent, IT hardware) to revenue based splits (e.g. tipping, hotdesks at coworking spaces, the cloud) is an excellent way to minimize risks and most businesses are willing to pay a premium for that.

That may well be the case, but in the restaurant industry it is potentially keeping in place a local maxima. No restaurant can experiment with spending less on front of house and more on back of house, ingredients, or space. That percentage of revenue (~25%) is locked in and untouchable.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#414

Post by Dracophoenix »

claudiulodro wrote: post #366
Dracophoenix wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops sellers from raising prices to the point that any meaningful gain in UBI is effectively zero?

Why don't landlords currently figure out a tenant's salary and charge exactly that amount in rent? Competition will still exist in a UBI society.

In any transaction, there is no distinction between money obtained as UBI and money earned as salary. A landlord is will set his price to what he can obtain from the highest bidder regardless of source.

UBI does not generate competition. It's a supplement. All it does is translate the supply curve rightwards. While UBI might stimulate demand in the short term, it doesn't fundamentally change the relationship. The eventual outcome of sustained UBI is an inflationary spiral.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#415

Post by danaris »

willcipriano wrote: post #368
danaris wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there may very well be a higher proportion of college students in front-of-house jobs, the idea that that's the majority of such people is similar to the idea that minimum-wage jobs in general are "for teenagers", and thus shouldn't need to provide a living wage. They all need better pay, but tipped minimum wage being lower is a further travesty (even with the provision that they have to take home at least mini…

My point is if you feel what FOH staff take home is a travisty, then you should be apaplectic with rage when you look towards the back of house. I don't see that often, it's mostly complaints about bartender and waitstaff earnings.

I mean, I try to ration my rage (there's a lot to be upset about and only so much blood pressure to go around), but yes, I think they all deserve much higher pay, in general.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#416

Post by wolverine876 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #411
wolverine876 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

charge more for special orders?

Like, if you're Waffle House and short-order is your bread and butter, sure. But a lot of times the kitchen will pre-set up things so they can get them out as fast as possible. There's a lot of management and prep that goes into cheap Sunday brunch that gets tossed out the window. Like I said earlier, it's fine during normal biz hours. But the 30 seconds of extra time the kitchen staff has to put into your special or…

That's a capacity and thus a management problem: Invest in more capacity.

I'm sympathetic with the staff, which in every business takes the bullets for management's decisions. Tech support is similar - frustrated with long wait times? Don't take it out on the person answering the phone; it is management's choice.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#417

Post by lotsofpulp »

alistairSH wrote: post #248
lotsofpulp wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know quite a few businesses that leveraged themselves with CMBS to refinance during the mid to late 2010s whose debt service coverage ratio are about to go below the agreed upon threshold because of rising labor costs. They borrowed money and gave up the business and land as collateral in exchange for some frothy valuations and limiting personal liability, but the terms are that if they exceed their DSCR, they ente…

The correct solution to that problem is allowing those businesses to default. Not attempt to universally prevent wage increases.

No one is preventing wage increases other than the owners of the over leveraged businesses. I was just positing one reason why business owners would be so hellbent on prevent wage increases.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#418

Post by lotsofpulp »

ethbr0 wrote: post #373
oramit wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed growing incivility as well and it's a slow moving culture change that I think we're all going to really regret. I don't think it's caused by just one thing and it has been brewing for a while but Covid just pushed it over the edge like so many other trends. Some ideas on the causes: - The fish rots from the head. Trump was elected in 2016 and he's an asshole. His whole schtick is to mock his opponents an…

> All real decision making has been taken away from the people who actually interact with the public. Executives and managers who have the power to change things (like increase wages to bring more employees in) are insulated from the public. Had to scroll down a bit, because I knew this comment had to exist, but wholeheartedly agreed. Managers in customer-facing jobs don't (and can't!) manage customers anymore. They…

> Managers in customer-facing jobs don't (and can't!) manage customers anymore. They manage employees.

They are managers so they do not have to be paid overtime if they work over 40 hours per week. The business owners/directors let the manager hire just enough people, but not at a wage that can afford reliable workers. So, the manager will be stuck covering for the people that do not show, and if something goes wrong, they serve as a nice “fall guy”.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#419

Post by ngngngng »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #222
ngngngng wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at a call center doing technical support, customers would often get frustrated. But as soon as they crossed the line into unprofessional, I informed them I was hanging up the call, and did. Why would anyone in a service based industry put up with customers throwing tantrums? The manager should immediately march out, give them a refund, and tell them to leave.

When was that? Because like every other low wage job, those conditions have also gotten a lot worse. These days a very standard contact center policy is that reps can never hang up on a customer under any circumstances. Breaking this is considered one of the big ones, termination-worthy on a first or maybe second offense depending on the employer. All you can really do is escalate it up to your supervisor. But that d…

2016, so a whole lifetime ago in pandemic years

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#420

Post by ryandrake »

ethbr0 wrote: post #373
oramit wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed growing incivility as well and it's a slow moving culture change that I think we're all going to really regret. I don't think it's caused by just one thing and it has been brewing for a while but Covid just pushed it over the edge like so many other trends. Some ideas on the causes: - The fish rots from the head. Trump was elected in 2016 and he's an asshole. His whole schtick is to mock his opponents an…

> All real decision making has been taken away from the people who actually interact with the public. Executives and managers who have the power to change things (like increase wages to bring more employees in) are insulated from the public. Had to scroll down a bit, because I knew this comment had to exist, but wholeheartedly agreed. Managers in customer-facing jobs don't (and can't!) manage customers anymore. They…

My wife used to work retail and yes, customers have definitely learned they can get their way by raising their voice, demanding to see a manager, and the manager will sheepishly do anything they can to mollify them. All consequence-free. And if they don’t get what they want, they can go berserk and trash the store—again, consequence-free. Store management can’t physically do anything to neutralize the threat.

I can’t put my finger on it but something happened in the last 5 years or so, some change in the country’s moral North Star, that ushered in this era of consequence-free obnoxious behavior. It’s almost as if some leader embodied and emboldened this behavior and normalized it.

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