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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#411

Post by sigmaprimus »

nly wrote: post #392
sigmaprimus wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people have a misguided belief that home ownership was easy in the 70s, 80s or even the 90s. Yes the prices were lower and maybe the cost/average income ratio was lower but I can attest to the fact that it was no easy feat even back then. Plenty of people lost their homes, renters had far less rights and although when looking at things through averages seems to indicate a better off middle class, the wages of th…

Of course it wasn't 'easy' to make mortgage payments back then. Mr Market always prices monthly outgoings for housing to some % of typical income. The difference is those who managed to get on the property ladder in between the 70s and 90s saw falling rates and their LTV ratios being crushed as property prices sawed. Today many of those people live in 7 figure homes in the middle of prime city centers, or bought seco…

>>>Today many of those people live in 7 figure homes in the middle of prime city centers.

Many of those people live in their same homes, the city grew up around them. At risk of making a generalization, too many young people feel they should get to start at the top. People who bought homes in the 70s spent a lifetime accumulating their wealth, many of them have supported two generations of children and are still working to support the next generation. It is much easier to just throw up your hands and cry out "The World is Unfair". A choice is made to just give up rather put in the hard work required to succeed, that choice is about to go away along with the opportunities that todays youth have squandered.

Hard times are right around the corner, the good news is that housing prices are going to come down. The bad news is it won't make a difference to the people complaining about not being able to afford them as the cost/wage ratio means nothing when You don't have a job.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#412

Post by Valakas_ »

neilwilson wrote: post #36

That's because this is Keynesian 'semi-inflation', which is a reallocation and rationing of increasingly scarce resources by price. Markets are doing what markets do. Those with the power to match prices with wage demands stay where they are, and the cost is transferred to those who cannot push wages, and those who lose their jobs. That's actually how inflation is actually controlled - via the threat of unemployment…

The end result of unregulated capitalism is feudalism/slavery.

Just think:

What is more competitive than a company where its employees work for free?

Should we be surprised that this is exactly where things are going? Not literally for free, but to its modern equivalent - the minimum people accept before they get to the streets with pitchforks. The modern day version of working for free is working for a salary where you basically don't get much of it except for basic necessities required for said job. Putting kids in debt out of college has been "perfect" for this. The revolting house prices idem. So workers are forced to be in debt for their whole life, and get to enjoy 2 weeks of holidays out of 52 in a year, while the rest spending on surviving. How far is that from working for free, in the modern day, really? What is the alternative, be a social outcast and go live in the woods? Risk it all and be entrepreneur?

Unregulated capitalism is working as intended. And that's exactly the problem.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#413

Post by sokoloff »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #383
dan-robertson wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Americans are significantly worse off since the 1970s I think this is obviously false and hurts the credibility of the rest of this comment. There are many pitfalls with measuring long-term inflation. How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? These modern technologies make peoples lives much better and were somewhere between impossible and impossibly…

did you know that in the 70s no matter how poor you were you could make a phone call for just ten cents even if your cell phone was out of power! >and more fuel efficient more fuel efficient is only of interest if you are talking about how much it costs to run a car. Cars are more fuel efficient now than they were in the 1970s because it costs so much more to run them. Funny enough of course that increase in prices s…

Most working class people who own a car are interested in running that car and the associated costs. (It’s not likely a museum piece for them.)

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#414

Post by oblio »

nickpp wrote: post #381
oblio wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare Eastern Europe like that, though. Romania has a GDP per capita of 1/6th the US one and it spends a pitiful percentage of its GDP on healthcare, about 5%. The US spends 18%. So the US has 18 times more money (!) for healthcare. The other ones are even worse, Moldova's GDP per capita is 1/20th the US one. So probably 30 times more money spent by the US on healthcare. It's like comparing a maglev train…

You are ignoring what EE countries spend on training countless health care workers who then emigrate and work as cheap and highly educated in the West. And health care cost increase exponentially with quality, not linearly. Bleeding edge research and medical advances appear in the USA mostly. And mostly everybody enjoys the fruits.

I keep hearing about US research but Europe has huge pharma companies: Germany has a bunch, France some more, Switzerland, the UK.

The US has a very parasitic healthcare system so I wonder how much their expenses are for actual research.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#415

Post by moonchrome »

cabraca wrote: post #224
futharkshill wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being overly dramatic. A hundred years ago, workers were treated so bad and had such bad living conditions it makes you sick just to hear about it. THAT lead to some violent revolutions in some countries, most of them young, undemocratic, or unstable. Some of them migrated 2,000 km from their home. People have food, shelter, entertainment.

its not only about food, shelter and entertainment, its about perspective. if you have to slave away for another 40 years, living paycheck to paycheck, can barely afford a family, a revolution in whatever form it comes might sound good. Check out the Strike at Kellogs, 80h/week, 16h Shifts for barely any money and the Company just wants to fire the striking employees. You can only press so much productivity out of pe…

> if you have to slave away

Yeah this is the reality disconnect, if you call modern work slaving away you're probably not the kind of person that's going to join a violent revolt, it's easy to write that shit on forums.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#416

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #389
WalterBright wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a circa 1970 car, and a modern car. The 1970 car is very cheaply built, and is mechanically simple. The quality, complexity, and sheer number of parts of a modern car has increased enormously. Much of that is due to regulation, most every aspect of a car is heavily regulated today. None of this comes for free.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the reasons the modern car has more parts and is not mechanically simple is not the boogeyman of regulations (although I suppose it could have caused some things like say seat belt alerts and airbags) but rather feature creep in the automotive industry, and computerization of everything.

Cars are much more reliable now than they were in the 1970s, and they can drive more miles.

They have to because services are distributed and it's super expensive and disruptive to sell an owned-residence.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#417

Post by nickpp »

oblio wrote: post #409
nickpp wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Eastern Europe, I am paying both the tax burden AND private medical insurance and care since I do not want to end up in state hospitals. I would much rather live in the USA and pay private insurance enjoying the standard of care there. It's the hill I live on, so I will probably die here.

Well, do what all reasonable Eastern Europeans do and go to an OECD country minus Mexico or Hungary or so :-))

I did that for a while, but I'd rather be part of the solution: I can do much more good and help many more people over here.

And I also do not enjoy the hard left turn of the recent Western politics. Although I am sure they will realize their mistake eventually and turn back to the principles that brought their prosperity - I am afraid it will be a bumpy ride.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#418

Post by anshumankmr »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #389
WalterBright wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a circa 1970 car, and a modern car. The 1970 car is very cheaply built, and is mechanically simple. The quality, complexity, and sheer number of parts of a modern car has increased enormously. Much of that is due to regulation, most every aspect of a car is heavily regulated today. None of this comes for free.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the reasons the modern car has more parts and is not mechanically simple is not the boogeyman of regulations (although I suppose it could have caused some things like say seat belt alerts and airbags) but rather feature creep in the automotive industry, and computerization of everything.

An example of this is the change to automatic transmission from manual has increased costs. People could have voted with their dollars but manual is (unfortunately) on its way out in America. In a way, they have as it seems vast majority of people buying new cars want automatic but the segment who prefer manual were unable to convince others to buy manual.

This also came with a caveat as automatic is more expensive to manufacture and repair.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#419

Post by guerrilla »

Jenk wrote: post #399
guerrilla wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> allowing the electorate to smell their bullshit. You need to look at the numbers. Far-right parties are growing everywhere in Europe... One is nearly the largest party in Sweden.

I mean.. as long as it's a fair election and not a campaign of lies, maybe the problem isn't the political parties and actually, people just really want the right to reign?

> people just really want the right to reign

Many people do. I see this as a dangerous problem. Weimar Germany also really wanted the right to reign and it didn't turn out well. The party here was founded in part by two literal Nazis and a bunch of skinheads. I don't really care what people want when they want them to rule.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#420

Post by montblanc »

nly wrote: post #392
sigmaprimus wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people have a misguided belief that home ownership was easy in the 70s, 80s or even the 90s. Yes the prices were lower and maybe the cost/average income ratio was lower but I can attest to the fact that it was no easy feat even back then. Plenty of people lost their homes, renters had far less rights and although when looking at things through averages seems to indicate a better off middle class, the wages of th…

Of course it wasn't 'easy' to make mortgage payments back then. Mr Market always prices monthly outgoings for housing to some % of typical income. The difference is those who managed to get on the property ladder in between the 70s and 90s saw falling rates and their LTV ratios being crushed as property prices sawed. Today many of those people live in 7 figure homes in the middle of prime city centers, or bought seco…

> Either we embrace inflation and wages rise

But then, probably, so would assets (stocks and real estate). I don't see an easy way out of this mess...

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