Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

devonzuegel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 534 posts

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#411

Post by rsj_hn »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #367
rsj_hn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies pay the prevailing wage in whatever labor market they participate in. The prevailing wage in the UK is lower than in Silicon Valley, but higher than in, say, Oklahoma City. Not sure why people are still confused about this. But it seems many still don't understand it. The funniest thing is when people try to concoct some sort of fairness argument to explain this, or equally hilarious is when they try to com…

> The prevailing wage in the UK is lower than in Silicon Valley, but higher than in, say, Oklahoma City. This probably isn't true. A quick googling indicates the average software engineer salary for Oklahoma City as being in the 70-80k USD range, while a similar googling says the number for the UK is around 50k GBP, which is...68k USD. The median software engineer salary for the US as a whole is 110k USD according to…

Are you comparing apples to apples? E.g. taxes, social contributions, social benefits, etc?

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#412

Post by kcb »

cromka wrote: post #336
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is overly cynical and alarmist. Outsourcing has been a thing for a long time and its results have also been known for a long time. Companies, for lack of a better term, have "fucked around and found out" by not going (relatively) local and depending on offshoring (even nearshoring) to their ultimate detriment. This isn't to say that companies that are remote (as in geographically) don't now have a bigger pool bu…

> Outsourcing This isn't outsourcing, this is hiring to work for the company's own teams based in the US. > offshoring This isn't offshoring in traditional terms, the projects stay in the US and are managed from there, with team members from all over the place.

Working from home hasn't changed the dynamics of having team members all over the world. There are countless issues creating an effective team spread around the globe from Language Barriers and Time Zones to Labor Laws (ex. losing Nordic employees for 2 months every summer)

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#413

Post by throwawaygh »

pcurve wrote: post #395
rwaksmunski wrote: post #341

I'm earning 6 figures in central Europe working remotely for the Americans. Local corporations can't match that let alone beat it. I'm cheaper than U.S. resources, yet a lot more experienced and productive. I'm happy and the employer is really, really happy. If anything remote work solidified US strong hold on IT talent, not broke it.

Definitely great news for you, but not so great news for IT talent located the U.S. if more companies start doing this. It's also bad news for employers in your country, because they're losing top talent like yourself to deep pocketed American companies.

Meh. I think folks under-estimate the variety of economies in the US. I could move to WV and live very comfortably on about 60K a year. I could very realistically take a 10x paycut (not that I would bother working for someone else in software at that point... "my engineers/scientists might leave and create the start-up that kills me" is definitely upward pressure on wages at least for a certain class of tech worker)

(FWIW, I don't really have a horse in this race; my skillset is unique enough that everyone who competes with me for jobs qualifies for special visas and there's a 10:1 or maybe even 100:1 labor shortage with a 6+ year ramp-up time. But I've worked with off-shore talent and seen the comps... my general impression is that Americans over-estimate the cost of living in the cheapest parts of our country and MASSIVELY under-estimate the cost of living in urban cores of other countries)

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#414

Post by lunfard000 »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #292
thriftwy wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do hire in Europe but pick expensive locales such as Switzerland, London or Dublin. I can't stop wondering why not open shop in Italy or Spain - wages may be much lower with way higher life quality.

We've tried hiring in these locations (Italy and Spain) with some success, but it's pretty tough because the talent pool is so small. At some point, you weigh whether the lower cost of the salary is worth the extra time/effort spent adding headcount. Which is funny because we have no shortage of Italian and Spanish devs applying for our expensive European city offices. I don't know European urban dynamics that well,…

maybe because people on those countries are not idiots and they know they will be paid better if they move to northen countries?

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#415

Post by kcb »

zz865 wrote: post #127
DeathArrow wrote: post #76

I see many people here comparing US with EU in term of wages. But for the comparation to work taxes, healthcare, education, and subsidizing several public services like transport or heating should be taken into account. Also, the comparation should take into consideration PPP. $300 000 pre-taxes in US is not 3x $100 000 after-taxes in EU. Especially if you adjust for other factors.

Also quality of life in Europe is much higher. US everything is bigger, but Europe wins for Food quality, cleanliness, crime & safety, holidays, design.

The quality of life may be higher for lower middle class or poor people, but not for developers making $150k+ a year with benefits. And most of your points are just silly or negated by having money.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#416

Post by lmm »

kcb wrote: post #415
zz865 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also quality of life in Europe is much higher. US everything is bigger, but Europe wins for Food quality, cleanliness, crime & safety, holidays, design.

The quality of life may be higher for lower middle class or poor people, but not for developers making $150k+ a year with benefits. And most of your points are just silly or negated by having money.

I've heard so many stories of people with top-tier insurance still going through medical bankruptcies in the US. And while you can pay to mitigate the crime risk in some ways, you can't avoid it entirely without seriously restricting your life.

There are upsides to the US, but when I realised that I could never see myself retiring there I realised it made no sense to spend my working life there, even if the salary would be higher.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#417

Post by coldtea »

ramesh31 wrote: post #383
coldtea wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no country pay like the US. Worked for silicon valley companies remotely, and made twice the money I made in France, while being 3 times cheaper than local competition. Not a problem for foreign companies that can and do pay "like the US", because they compete globally. > - no country have the volume of hi-level coding gig job offers the US has. Well, in that aspect, the US wont compete with each country one by one…

>Not a problem for foreign companies that can and do pay "like the US", because they compete globally. Do they really though? How many non-US companies are paying $150k+ to mid level front end developers? I don't think that exists anywhere else.

It doesn't exist for the majority of the US either...

https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programm...

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#418

Post by neom »

benjaminjackman wrote: post #391
neom wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the business side of the house, we keep waiting for rent to drop so we can find more space for growth, and it's not dropping because folks in real estate think there will be a rebound. As soon as I try to get into a negotiation, it's almost like they're MORE sticky on the price than they used to be, I guess because everyone is looking for a deal. I don't know what will happen but it makes no sense for me to pa…

My understanding and it could be wrong is that they can't lower their rates, (and might actually have to increase to compensate for more vacancy) because it will affect their ability to finance the buildings if they have lower rates from whatever math is used to calculate the soundness of the loans. That could be causing the stickiness on price you are seeing (if it's not apocryphal).

My understanding is your understanding is correct. I've also been told that's why NYC tends to be quite unique, the buildings are mostly owned so there is more leeway in finding something as you can go directly to the owner. That said, a startup I consult to is in the basement of a building in Vancouver, I talked to their landlord who owns the building free and clear for 3 generations, same deal, no reason to rent it, just let it sit till the market rebounds. Curious to see what will happen.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#419

Post by blibble »

rsj_hn wrote: post #411
TulliusCicero wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The prevailing wage in the UK is lower than in Silicon Valley, but higher than in, say, Oklahoma City. This probably isn't true. A quick googling indicates the average software engineer salary for Oklahoma City as being in the 70-80k USD range, while a similar googling says the number for the UK is around 50k GBP, which is...68k USD. The median software engineer salary for the US as a whole is 110k USD according to…

Are you comparing apples to apples? E.g. taxes, social contributions, social benefits, etc?

don't forget minimum 5.6 weeks paid holiday (~12% extra, and is tax free)
Post reply on HN