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Tech compensation in 2021

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Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#411
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the bay area at a large company. Generally, people at big companies work less than at small companies. Most software engineers I know making more than 400k work ~30 hours a week. Things get different at the super senior levels making several million, usually a lot more meetings, hard to speak to their specific hours. But on the other hand, they get to retire after two years if they want so...

> Things get different at the super senior levels making several million Right, everything changes at that point of income. Putting in ~70 hours a week for a few years to make 3-5 million seems like a no brainer. But grinding 60-70 hours a week for 300k-400k, I don't know. That's a much harder sell. You'll probably burn out before you could retire. I don't know what taxes would look like in CA but it would probably b…

> But grinding 60-70 hours a week for 300k-400k

Not to be rude but did you read the entirety of my post? This doesn't happen that much, the people putting in those hours are generally making 250k or less at mid level or above. Those making 300-400k generally either don't have to work many hours or are capable of passing interviews that will allow them to work significantly less.

> 180k take home on 300k income

Without going into too much detail, often by the time your stock is paid out to you it's worth much more than what you signed at so that you had an effective pay raise of sometimes 50% or more. You're also leaving out bonuses, which at some companies can be substantial.

Suffice to say, plenty of people retire in a decade.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#412
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Someone saying they are Staff+ because of their current role at an Akron startup and actually getting an offer for Staff+ from Google or Facebook are very different situations.

what does staff even mean when in his previous example someone with 5 years experience is "mid career"?

At many of the large tech companies, most technical employees will reach a title along the lines of "Senior Software Engineer" or "Senior Member of Technical Staff" and struggle to get promoted past that. At those companies, that title is considered an acceptable "terminal" career level, meaning they wouldn't be considered as stalled or be pushed out. They'll still be plenty productive and generally considered as senior developers. However, to get promoted from there requires a slightly expanded set of skills and experience. That next level is often "Staff Software Engineer".

The highest technical titles that exist at most of those companies are "Principal Software Engineer" and "Distinguished Engineer". Typically, much less than 5% of technical staff reach that level (I'd estimate 2%, but unsure). However, ~75% (random, plausible number - not actually sure) are "Senior Software Engineer" or below.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#413
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Someone saying they are Staff+ because of their current role at an Akron startup and actually getting an offer for Staff+ from Google or Facebook are very different situations.

what does staff even mean when in his previous example someone with 5 years experience is "mid career"?

It is a measure of skill. Senior is when you are good enough to lead a team with your technical skills, staff is when you can lead a team of seniors. Typical people reach senior level after 5 years and never reach staff level, so a typical engineer would still be senior even after 20 years.

It is a bit silly to label those senior, but that is how the industry decided to label things. If your company is more strict then it just make their engineers look worse than they are, it is a great way to make engineers less likely to get poached but it isn't great for those engineers since it will look like people with 20 years of experience and great track record stagnated after 5.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just the fact "grind Leet Code" is a recommendation to someone who's most recent job title was CTO and has written two books may be a sign these interviews are broken. This comment and those further down (particularly doubting the data) suggest that you're experiencing strong cognitive dissonance. There are, I'm sure, hundreds of engineers on HN that can testify to exactly how much FAANG pays and in which metro and…

Read what I said again. My point was not that algorithms are irrelevant but they are table stakes. I have known all the algorithms on Leet Code for years. My comment was not that I don't need to know algorithms it was that at a senior level the questions should be far more advanced than what leet code has. I'm a little amazed that so many people in these comments assume I don't know algorithms.

[deleted]

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just the fact "grind Leet Code" is a recommendation to someone who's most recent job title was CTO and has written two books may be a sign these interviews are broken. This comment and those further down (particularly doubting the data) suggest that you're experiencing strong cognitive dissonance. There are, I'm sure, hundreds of engineers on HN that can testify to exactly how much FAANG pays and in which metro and…

Read what I said again. My point was not that algorithms are irrelevant but they are table stakes. I have known all the algorithms on Leet Code for years. My comment was not that I don't need to know algorithms it was that at a senior level the questions should be far more advanced than what leet code has. I'm a little amazed that so many people in these comments assume I don't know algorithms.

> My point was not that algorithms are irrelevant but they are table stakes

You're wrong. A previous team built a simple data processing pipeline for a big customer. The throughput is single digit per second. The customer was furious as they would have wait for days to get their data in. The reason is the team was not aware that their graph building and traversal algorithms are O(n^2), and they didn't understand how to distribute their processing logic. My team came in, fixed the algorithms with merely dozens of lines, and improved the throughput by more than 200 times in a matter of days. If you build large backend for data intensive systems, which pretty much every tech company needs, you will need algorithms and data structures. Probabilistic data structures? Check. Manually optimizing popular machine learning algorithms? Check. Rolling out our own implementation of graphs, trees, vector similarity search algorithms and indices, parallelization algorithms, cache oblivious data structures? Check, check, and check. You don't have to use those techniques, but your value to your projects will increase exponentially if you push the boundary.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#416

If you're offering fabulous compensation packages that exceed the President of the United States for common software engineers with a little experience... wouldn't you want to use that to your advantage in your job postings? Every time I read an article like this I go looking for official numbers to validate what is being said. I'm not saying companies compensate poorly in SV. I just find it difficult to differentiat…

Right, it is a bit dumb that company compensation is so opaque. But these salaries are correct, I read about them online, saw enough people verify they are correct to trust, did the work to get in and got these high numbers. They aren't fake.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#417
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all of that. European tech companies are smaller than US tech companies, have lower gross revenue per employee, make less profit per employee. Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals. Labor productivity is also lower in Europe. Finally, Europe still has a culture where software engineers, cloud architects/products/managers/etc. are viewed as code monkeys and the pe…

> Europe also suffers from a brain drain to the US (and Canada to a smaller proportion). Many of Europe's best and brightest software engineers have already emigrated to the US, leaving behind the less productive ones. Of course not, it is just mind numbing regulation coupled with systematic risk aversion. Many SV startups would never have gained traction starting over from Europe, neither financially nor for large-s…

why does Europe not value engineers? Because the environment in the USA has created tech companies where engineers can achieve more?

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#418

20 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong" I live about 40 miles outside of Boston. Edit: Looking at levels.fyi for Boston that actually puts me above the median[1]. Why the heck is Boston so low compared to other markets? Edit…

You are in the wrong place. The top salaries are exclusvively in the Bay Area and New York.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#419
post #271
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should judge these deals based on expected value. Which is what all the comments you are replying to are saying. However the expected value isn't automatically $0 as the article suggests. You can apply a fair bit of your own judgement.

It's close enough to 0 to be a rounding error. Even some of the recent unicorn IPOs didn't return enough for employees to offset what they could have made working at FAANG. https://www.teamblind.com/post/IPO-millionaires-Y7ak8UpJ

Before Facebook was the F in FAANG it was a private company (as were the others obviously). The IPO was only in 2012 - a large number of people became millionaires.

The same was true for Snapchat, Asana, Roblox, etc.

The same will be true for Stripe, Robinhood, and others.

A subset of those people go on to become angel investors themselves.

FAANG pays a lot and there are outliers, but most FAANG employees are not clearing >2M. People at Snap made >20M.

I’m just suggesting people value it seriously and don’t reflexivity value it at zero - that’s all. I think pretending it’s zero is a mistake and stating this repeatedly on HN is a disservice.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read what I said again. My point was not that algorithms are irrelevant but they are table stakes. I have known all the algorithms on Leet Code for years. My comment was not that I don't need to know algorithms it was that at a senior level the questions should be far more advanced than what leet code has. I'm a little amazed that so many people in these comments assume I don't know algorithms.

>My comment was not that I don't need to know algorithms it was that at a senior level the questions should be far more advanced than what leet code has. Seniors (>=L5) go through a "pirate" round that's system design/arch in addition to the "ninja" round. But you're a CTO so you should be able to ace that (after handily passing ninja since you know all the algorithms). So what exactly are you waiting for? I mean lik…

Mostly because I stayed at my last job way too long and when I was finally ready to leave I started my own company vs job hunting.

I probably will start applying if my new company doesn't make it.

Though a lot of me wonders why I am working for no pay at my own company when it sounds like I can make enough to retire being an individual contributor. I do believe in my idea though and want to see it through.

I have friends at just about every one of the FAANG companies so a refferal's not the issue.

Edit: When I say way too long... I mean 10+ years.

Edit 2 because I just realized how it could have sounded: I didn't start a company then give myself the CTO title. I was CTO at my previous job (the one I was at 10+ years).

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