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You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

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Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#411

Post by dredmorbius »

throwawaysea wrote: post #213
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you create a platform with absolutely zero censorship, you become a repository for child porn. I participated in Freenet many years ago because I liked its ideas (And thought it would have been a nice way to pirate games without my ISP being able to know), but it got a reputation for being used for CP, and I promptly deleted it, because I want no part in that. If you merely censor illegal content, you will become…

> If you merely censor illegal content, you will become a home for disinformation and ultra right-wing conspiracies. See Parler. What do you count as disinformation and why is it a problem? If you disagree with something you can ignore it and move on, or engage with it and respond with your own counter-argument. It doesn't seem like a problem that reduces the viability of the entire platform. It is also strange to me…

The consequences of a toxic media landscape at scale are felt by those considerably removed from the platform(s) themselves. Twitter cheered the Arab Spring protests. Facebook are attempting to distance themselves from their very active role in the Myanmar genocide. History shows that changes to media landscapes are often very disruptive socially and politically, often at a horrific cost of innocent lives.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#412

Post by npunt »

derekzhouzhen wrote: post #323
npunt wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DMs are a major abuse vector, and only the abuser and their victim see DMs. It doesn't sound like you've thought this one through.

I don't even support DM. Also anyone get only one chance to reply, unless the reply is approved.

Sorry I wasn’t clear.

I was replying to your assertion that ‘Flame wars, abuse etc. only happen if there are other people watching’. DMs are an example of a major abuse vector where other people are not watching.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#413

Post by BeFlatXIII »

dkh wrote: post #211
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. People uploading things like pirated content tend to do so in bulk. You might see people uploading hundreds of videos of TV shows or whatever. It may exceed legitimate uploads in the early days of a platform. You do not want to burden users with this level of moderation Not to mention that viewers aren't likely to flag the complete discography camrip of My Little Pony unless they're stupid or have an axe to grin…

Exactly. Setting aside all legal concerns and whatever anyone's philosophy is about piracy or moderated content, you still have the enormous concern about what kind of community you are fostering and what kind of people you are attracting based on what content you allow to be surfaced.

All the Reddit alternatives are each an example of why the early community matters so much. Being a piracy haven is probably the "best" outcome in terms of community-building compared to all the other common fates of low-moderation websites in growth mode.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#414

Post by xwdv »

dredmorbius wrote: post #394
xwdv wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several years ago a popular gaming forum with a significant teenage audience I used to read had declared a simple policy toward threats of suicide. If you were threatening to kill yourself, do it , and stop messaging the mods, they are not here to talk you down from a ledge. It seemed pretty effective.

Pointing to a mental health crisis service would be far more advisable. I'd stick with the ban if the threat was in response to moderation actions.

Most these threats weren’t serious, just some problematic teen looking for attention. Showing them that some strangers don’t give a shit about them or their antics could be a real eye opener.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#415

Post by dcow »

andrewflnr wrote: post #356
dcow wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your blog required a “real ID” to post content rather than allowed anonymous comments, would we have the same problem? The premise of the GP (and one I share) is that the internet’s content moderation problems are symptoms of default anonymity . Twitter is default anonymous so nobody’s reputation is a stake when they teach a neural net hooked up to the twitter firehose to be a racist asshole.

Facebook comments can still be a tire fire. It's not the anonymity, it's the lack of consequences.

In my experience, Facebook comment threads (while still awful at times) are very different from e.g. YouTube or Tumbler or Twitter comments. Sure they still devolve and become a mess sometimes, but from what I remember there was noticeably less "hard" trolling (i.e. 4chan style derogatory) on Facebook. People still light troll Facebook but not so much in the explicitly derogatory and assholish ways done in communities where expendable identities exist. In any event, because people use real IDs on Facebook, we can and do impose consequences. Remember when everybody used their first name middle name so jobs wouldn't see their underage party pics with substance use?... And then when everyones parents and grandparents joined people just stopped posting that stuff altogether and facebook "grew up".

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#416

Post by chefandy »

TheSmiddy wrote: post #288
chefandy wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh. For any specific purpose? Does it seem like they avoiding paying for recruiter accounts or something by evading algorithms designed to detect their activity, or is it just for the heck of it?

It's following some business wank advice to stand out from the crowd like printing your resume on A3 card stock.

Ah. Sounds like something one of those pickup artists would say if they blindly pivoted into marketing.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#417

Post by woko »

spurgu wrote: post #385
woko wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the scale. I can vouch that crowd-moderation works fine for a small forum (~ 1000 members) which I am part of. And there is no karma system. You get to report posts (3 reports mean that the post is deleted), and warn users (24-hour ban after 3 "active" warnings, and then it scales up to a permanent ban after 15 "active" warnings). Warnings become "inactive" after a month. It also depends on the threat m…

> You get to report posts (3 reports mean that the post is deleted), and warn users (24-hour ban after 3 "active" warnings, and then it scales up to a permanent ban after 15 "active" warnings). Warnings become "inactive" after a month. Sounds like I could do some damage there by signing up with three accounts?

In practice, this has not happened yet, and it has been 3 years since the forum inception.

One obstacle which I forgot to mention is that an account cannot report posts or warn other members unless the account is 3 months old *and* the account has created at least 300 posts. Both conditions have to be met. I guess it is a sufficient hindrance for most Internet trolls to forget about the forum if they had no intention to take part in the community in the first place.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#418

Post by alxndr »

raxxorrax wrote: post #370
SilverRed wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kinds of things never work because people will come up with infinite dog whistle terms for blocked terms. Things like "egg plant", "13%", etc. You couldn't possibly block all of these things without blocking a lot of legitimate discussion.

egg plant is a dog whistle? It is the "official" name for my google account. I am Mr. plant. I don't associate anything with it aside from a vegetable I don't particularly like.

More of a euphemism than a dog-whistle... https://www.dictionary.com/e/emoji/eggplant-emoji/

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#419

Post by derekzhouzhen »

npunt wrote: post #412
derekzhouzhen wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even support DM. Also anyone get only one chance to reply, unless the reply is approved.

Sorry I wasn’t clear. I was replying to your assertion that ‘Flame wars, abuse etc. only happen if there are other people watching’. DMs are an example of a major abuse vector where other people are not watching.

I understand. However, on my platform, there is no even username so it is very hard to follow people around. Also there is one reply per node limit and per user comment limit per day to cap the volume.

Anyone must be able to take a small amount of abuse to survive this world. I can't eliminate abuse but I can increase the friction of abuse and make abuse less satisfying or rewarding. That's all I want to do.

Re: You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation

#420

Post by bad_username »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #233
throwawaysea wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you merely censor illegal content, you will become a home for disinformation and ultra right-wing conspiracies. See Parler. What do you count as disinformation and why is it a problem? If you disagree with something you can ignore it and move on, or engage with it and respond with your own counter-argument. It doesn't seem like a problem that reduces the viability of the entire platform. It is also strange to me…

> What do you count as disinformation I won't get into the argument of "Well then who is the arbiter of truth?" because honestly, I don't have an answer. It can't be the government for obvious reasons, but it also can't be private corporations, and certainly can't be the general public. That leaves...nobody. Maybe a non-profit organization, but even those could easily be corrupted. > and why is it a problem? Nearly 7…

> Disinformation is literally killing people by contributing to the continued spread of a pandemic. It's absolutely insane to me that you would genuinely ask why disinformation is a problem.

I wonder if you ever considered the possibity that not everything that goes against your current beliefs is disinformation.

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