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Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

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Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#411

Post by moonchrome »

geocar wrote: post #370
_laiq wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this really hard to believe. Say, you manage to recruit the top-30 engineers who know all the in-and-outs of the google search engine. Add to that, their recent replacement of trad AI methods with full NN I believe, and I can't realistically believe it's not more than a 1B problem. One of the reasons Google is going horizontal because their search engine can't be "magical" forever, this applies to their ad pla…

Here are just a few of the things you aren’t considering: * how many people worldwide keep their google places information up-to-date and not their local government office or their website. * how advertisers can get value for their search ad campaigns; how to convince them of this * how much google ad/targeting intelligence comes from off-site (eg Adsense, partner programs, xml ads) * how many websites and website ow…

Apple has all that data, if not better, on a much more valuable audience at that, and can market themselves as "privacy friendly" because only they will leverage said data and won't let anyone in on their platform, and naturally you will trust Apple.

Hell they can even throw a spin on how it's about "privacy" and not about taking another way to bank on their walled garden monopoly and the Apple crowd here will gobble it up with "we are finally free from Google spying, praise Tim and his holy father Steve in heaven".

I've been arguing app stores are a monopoly for years now and the amount of cultist here that were like "Apple is doing it to protect me from bad software" and "I would not use my iPhone if there was an option to install a different store" was staggering.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#412

Post by f6v »

hnlmorg wrote: post #404
f6v wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is that the console market has real competitions which gives more leverages to developers. I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two.

> I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two. Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there. The Switch is going from strength to strength and I'd estimate it will outsell the Playstation 4 before Nintendo retire…

> So anyway, back to your point. You might scoff but actually Nintendo are in a far more stable and successful position than Sony and Microsoft (with regards to consoles).

I'm not saying its unsuccessful, just that people who play Detroit or Gears aren't going to buy Switch just because PS5/Xbox is out of stock.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#413

Post by samb1729 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #404
f6v wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is that the console market has real competitions which gives more leverages to developers. I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two.

> I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two. Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there. The Switch is going from strength to strength and I'd estimate it will outsell the Playstation 4 before Nintendo retire…

> Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there.

I don't think sales numbers are the parent comment's point. Rather, that "Xbox or Playstation" is a common enough question to imply there is direct competition (and there are lots of shared titles), whereas the Nintendo consoles exist more or less in a vacuum.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#414

Post by Jensson »

lots2learn wrote: post #389

Can someone help me underatand: how is Google/Apple's app store fee different than when a game console company charges game developers a licensing fee to put their game on their console?

Why do people bring that up? Phone market is orders of magnitude bigger, bigger more important markets face more scrutiny.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#415

Post by hnlmorg »

f6v wrote: post #412
hnlmorg wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two. Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there. The Switch is going from strength to strength and I'd estimate it will outsell the Playstation 4 before Nintendo retire…

> So anyway, back to your point. You might scoff but actually Nintendo are in a far more stable and successful position than Sony and Microsoft (with regards to consoles). I'm not saying its unsuccessful, just that people who play Detroit or Gears aren't going to buy Switch just because PS5/Xbox is out of stock.

You'd be surprised. If the other consoles are out of stock then those gamers might already have a PC or an earlier console (eg PS4). So they might instead buy a Switch despite it not having Detroit nor Gears knowing they already have a platform that does play those games.

A fair number of gamers are disinterested with the latest generation because they don't see the envelope being pushed enough (eg for many, the previous generation largely looked "good enough") but Nintendo offering something totally new (portable plus their own exclusives) offers something more for their money.

Maybe in a couple of years time if/when AAA titles stop offering releases on the PS4 we might see more people pining for a PS5. But a lot of the muted reactions are precisely because there isn't an urgency to upgrade.

Now you could argue that even if they don't replace their PS4 with a PS5, they're still spending money with Sony. But if these gamers also have a Switch -- which many will do -- then their gaming budget is now divided between Nintendo and Sony. Eg if they have £50 next week to buy a new game, they can't spend it in full on both the Playstation and the Switch. Even if they only spend half that on the Switch, it's still a 50% drop for Sony.

So Nintendo might target a slightly different market but they're still affecting Sony and Microsoft's games sales.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#416

Post by hnlmorg »

samb1729 wrote: post #413
hnlmorg wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two. Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there. The Switch is going from strength to strength and I'd estimate it will outsell the Playstation 4 before Nintendo retire…

> Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there. I don't think sales numbers are the parent comment's point. Rather, that "Xbox or Playstation" is a common enough question to imply there is direct competition (and there are lots of shared titles), whereas the Nintendo consoles exist more or less in a vacuum.

It's still more nuanced than that. As I've mentioned in my post, Microsoft have been pushing hard the PC side of Xbox. So it's really more Playstation, Xbox and/or PC. Then if you introduce the PC you have Steam and all the other stores too.

Also don't write the Switch off for serious gamers either. Most gamers I know who have an Xbox or PS also have a Switch. Why is this important? Because if someone has £50 to spend on a game, they cannot spend that same £50 on both the PS/Xbox and the Switch stores. So even if the Switch occupies a slightly different market, it's still taking money that might have gone to Sony or Microsoft.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#417

Post by ZoomerCretin »

hnlmorg wrote: post #404
f6v wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is that the console market has real competitions which gives more leverages to developers. I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two.

> I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two. Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there. The Switch is going from strength to strength and I'd estimate it will outsell the Playstation 4 before Nintendo retire…

You’re missing the point entirely. Microsoft monopolizes all Xbox stores. Sony monopolizes all Playstation stores. Nintendo monopolizes all Switch stores.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#418

Post by ZoomerCretin »

helloiloveyou23 wrote: post #402
f6v wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is that the console market has real competitions which gives more leverages to developers. I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two.

I don't think that is correct unless you have a very narrow "market" in mind. Both Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and PC vendors sell gaming hardware. And both Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and Steam own stores that sell video games. Sure, Nintendo's hardware and software has some distinguishing features. But, they still all compete for gamers attention and money. As a case in point, it's clear that Nintendo themselves think…

Unless I’m missing something, these stores are NOT in direct competition because they all monopolize their respective platforms.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#419

Post by ZoomerCretin »

summerlight wrote: post #332

Interestingly, this is exactly what's happening in the console gaming market today; Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have been paying subsidies of millions dollar to renowned studios as well as various preferential treatments on advertising, publishing and marketing of their games. The difference is that the console market has real competitions which gives more leverages to developers. Google didn't have to do this thank…

Why are you comparing consoles to phone app stores when the more clear comparison is console app stores to phone app stores? As far as I know, every console manufacturer monopolizes all sales to their platform, which is no different than Apple or Google’s app stores.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#420

Post by [deleted] »

tomnipotent wrote: post #287
IncRnd wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but when Janet Reno "had the goods" on Microsoft, she suddenly settled. Mind you, that was a lengthy case with the explicit purpose of splitting up Microsoft. Then, when it was all but cinched, she suddenly reversed and settled for just about ... no concessions. All Microsoft had to do was share APIs. Even the judge in the case said that Microsoft executives had "proved, time and time again, to be inaccurat…

> Even the judge This was Judge Jackson, who had his decision overturned by the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. Also "the appeals court judges accused him of unethical conduct." A lot of grandiose things were said by people during these trials, many looking to enrich their careers.

[deleted]
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