Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#411

Post by rexreed » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:12 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #319

edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

If AirBnB was smart, they would have made the offer in PUBLIC, so that we don't have this he-said / she-said thing going on. To be honest, it's hard to believe anyone in this story. Lesson learned: be quick, be open, be transparent, be thoughtful, be understanding. Basically, be human.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#412

Post by llambda » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:16 PM UTC

ulisesroche wrote: post #407

llambda wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you didn't read her first post, pg's comment is corroborated by EJ: she herself claims they offered her "emotional and financial"[1] support. There is no conspiracy. I believe she's telling the truth. But I don't believe Airbnb is some evil company blindly exploiting her. [1] http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011_06_01_archive.html "I would be remiss if I didn’t pause here to emphasize that the customer se…

Don't ignore the second post: She claims she hasn't been contacted by anyone since June 30th, until well, now, almost August, when the post went viral and this whole mess was brought to light. reply-edit: It's follow-through that matters. Is this not one of our principles? Yet, she's still homeless, hurt, and scared, but who cares, right? "For all we know!" is an excuse. Airbnb's, "we're on it, folks!, let us get pas…

I don't understand: can't she pick up the phone and say, "Hey what happened? You promised to helped me. Now where's the help?"

Anyway for all we know they offered and she said, "Thanks. But no thanks." (What I'm saying is we don't know what the exchange was between them precisely, we only know that both sides of the story are saying the same thing: she was at least offered help from the outset.)

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#413

Post by rexreed » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:17 PM UTC

temphn wrote: post #108

fletchowns wrote: post #31

He then addressed his concerns about my blog post, and the potentially negative impact it could have on his company’s growth and current round of funding. During this call and in messages thereafter, he requested that I shut down the blog altogether or limit its access, and a few weeks later, suggested that I update the blog with a “twist" of good news so as to “complete[s] the story”. If this is true it is downright…

Edit: bring on the downvotes! That's right, downvote a difference of opinion, and forget about logical or reasoned counterargument. Next time the internet lynch mob will come for your startup; hope that someone takes your side when they do. ---- Don't you think the CEO has to worry about the people he's paying? Who knows what their burn rate is; that funding could have been a life or death event, and in the event of…

Yup, this does indeed deserve the downvote.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#414

Post by lambda » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:21 PM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #290

lambda wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not mention the landlord? Maybe because it's not particularly relevant? I mean, what would she say about the landlord? "I told the landlord, and he commiserated with me, and helped me change the locks." And heck, she already mentioned changing the locks. As far as the investigation, Airbnb has claimed that a suspect has been apprehended, but apparently neither the SFPD nor Airbnb have contacted her with any furth…

This is a 37 year old woman who lived in NYC for 6 years and then spent two year traveling to places like Brazil and Bogota, Columbia. At this point she knows that people suck and shit happens. She definitely does not have PTSD from this experience. I take back any thing that might have suggested I agreed with the conspiracy theorists. This woman is BROKE and she's trying to spin this hard to get some sort of payout…

Who exactly are you trying to claim the "conspiracy theorists" are? People who believe her story more than Airbnb's response?

As far as I can tell, she's not trying to get some sort of payout from Airbnb. If she were, it would be much easier to threaten to sue, and then settle out of court, than to post about it on her blog. I think that she was just trying to warn people about the risks of Airbnb; that while it's all been pretty safe and a rewarding experience for everyone involved so far, she's managed to have the inevitable first truly awful experience, and Airbnb basically offers nothing to help deal with the situation.

Of course she knows that people suck. But sometimes you can be lulled into a false sense of complacence. No one has had problems so far. You get to talk to the person beforehand. And you may believe that Airbnb has better safety procedures than they actually do; you figure that they've done their homework, do some sort of basic screening of hosts and guests, when in fact they actually do nothing and don't give you enough information to do it yourself.

Have a little sympathy for her. Even if you know people suck, it can be traumatizing when it actually happens to you. She had her apartment vandalized, many of her most personal belongings stolen, her identity stolen, her credit card stolen and used.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#415

Post by bethling » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:22 PM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #290

lambda wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not mention the landlord? Maybe because it's not particularly relevant? I mean, what would she say about the landlord? "I told the landlord, and he commiserated with me, and helped me change the locks." And heck, she already mentioned changing the locks. As far as the investigation, Airbnb has claimed that a suspect has been apprehended, but apparently neither the SFPD nor Airbnb have contacted her with any furth…

This is a 37 year old woman who lived in NYC for 6 years and then spent two year traveling to places like Brazil and Bogota, Columbia. At this point she knows that people suck and shit happens. She definitely does not have PTSD from this experience. I take back any thing that might have suggested I agreed with the conspiracy theorists. This woman is BROKE and she's trying to spin this hard to get some sort of payout…

There's a world of difference between seeing shit happen to other people and having it happen to you. You might think you're ready to handle it, but the moment you're violated it will likely affect you in ways that you could never really imagine. (and that's not to say that everyone will fall apart - but it's almost never what you expected)

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#416

Post by rdouble » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:23 PM UTC

bethling wrote: post #415

rdouble wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a 37 year old woman who lived in NYC for 6 years and then spent two year traveling to places like Brazil and Bogota, Columbia. At this point she knows that people suck and shit happens. She definitely does not have PTSD from this experience. I take back any thing that might have suggested I agreed with the conspiracy theorists. This woman is BROKE and she's trying to spin this hard to get some sort of payout…

There's a world of difference between seeing shit happen to other people and having it happen to you. You might think you're ready to handle it, but the moment you're violated it will likely affect you in ways that you could never really imagine. (and that's not to say that everyone will fall apart - but it's almost never what you expected)

In my previous post I mention a similar burglary DID happen to me. Honestly, one cleans up and gets over it.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#417

Post by rdouble » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:24 PM UTC

lambda wrote: post #414

rdouble wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a 37 year old woman who lived in NYC for 6 years and then spent two year traveling to places like Brazil and Bogota, Columbia. At this point she knows that people suck and shit happens. She definitely does not have PTSD from this experience. I take back any thing that might have suggested I agreed with the conspiracy theorists. This woman is BROKE and she's trying to spin this hard to get some sort of payout…

Who exactly are you trying to claim the "conspiracy theorists" are? People who believe her story more than Airbnb's response? As far as I can tell, she's not trying to get some sort of payout from Airbnb. If she were, it would be much easier to threaten to sue, and then settle out of court, than to post about it on her blog. I think that she was just trying to warn people about the risks of Airbnb; that while it's al…

Who exactly are you trying to claim the "conspiracy theorists" are?

Guys like spolsky who suggested it might be a group of goons hired by a hotel association.

I now just think she got burglarized, and found out the hard way that SFPD can't really do much to help. She probably doesn't have renter's insurance, which does not apply in the case of an illegal sublet anyway. She's a freelance writer, so she's probably broke and therefore trying to squeeze something out of AirBNB.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#418

Post by tungwaiyip » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:26 PM UTC

ellyagg wrote: post #341

dlss wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, I don't see how this answers estel's question. Is she crazy? Did she stop checking email, SMS, and phone? (or maybe change number post break in?) Did you misinterpret what the AirBnB guys told you? How can these two drastically different accounts make sense together? (edit: if you only read the TC coverage, the link you are replying to is EJ's account)

While I greatly sympathized with her plight originally, I do note that she is somewhat disingenuous in her post today. For example, she quotes AirBnB as saying someone is in custody and then says local officials have not contacted her saying that's the case, implying that this somehow invalidates their claim. But then she goes on to show detailed knowledge of someone being in custody, even though they haven't been ch…

I have some idea on the discrepancy. Neither party are being deliberately disingenuous. It is more of a point of view issue. This mess take a long time to fix even in the best circumstance. So it is natural for EJ to still feel violated and frightened. She say "Since June 30, this co-founder has been the only person at Airbnb from whom I have received occasional contact regarding my situation". I think she is too shaken to appreciate the direct involvement of the 2 founders. I'll be lot more piss off if the customer service is the only one to talk to me.

Airbnb does sound like they are doing their part. Although if they really do pressure EJ to take down her post it will be the dumbest thing to do. It is lot more useful to publicize they own effort to help and perhaps compensate the victim.

Arrington present only the worst point of view. The sky is falling if you only read his post.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#419

Post by jeffgreco » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:28 PM UTC

forgotAgain wrote: post #200

microcentury wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way things are right now, maybe this blows over and the AirBnB business model continues just the way it was, with its associated massive valuation. If they help everyone in the way you are suggesting, the model is _definitely_ finished, because you cannot create the expectation that AirBnB will pick up the pieces every time something goes wrong. And the more people use the service, the mores cases like this there…

Fuck the model, it's broken.

100% agree. At a certain point, when a service is in violation of numerous local laws and is facilitating harm to its users with no recourse, maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#420

Post by Terretta » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 9:29 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #336

DanHulton wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrington aside, EJ's own blog post here seems to contradict what you're saying. The story she paints is one of AirBnB doing as much as they can in terms of damage control, but precious little in terms of repair. If they've offered to "fix it", and are doing "everything they could be doing", why is she talking about feeling neglected? I quote: "But the staff at Airbnb has not made a positive contribution to me person…

I don't know her so I couldn't say.

Excuse me for strongly disagreeing, but one doesn't need to know her to answer whether she's lying.

The facts of what AirBnB is, or is not, doing to date are known and demonstrable.

So far, and after far too much time has passed, only words and assurances have surfaced. No one from AirBnB, nor you yourself, has mentioned any concrete assistance already provided directly to this AirBnB customer. In this very thread, the founder says, more or less, "We're here for you." What has that meant so far? What does it mean now?

Without knowing her, by seeing proof from AirBnB you would know if she is lying. If you don't know, that would imply you haven't seen proof of concrete support to date.

I recently listed a property on AirBnB. AirBnB could make $8,500 a year from me in fees -- it's a nice property. I'd hate to see it damaged.

You can see I have a high degree of interest in seeing how AirBnB handles customer service, to decide whether I should instead be using an old school Realtor™ or VRBO w/ manual listing and screening. I'm sure there are others thinking this same thing, and we early adopters talk. A lot.

Will AirBnB be like Nordstrom and Apple, or will it be like Chase Bank? So far, I'm seeing inaction followed by hand-waving once word got out. Let's see AirBnB's no-spin action approach if there is one.