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It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

noaa.gov

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Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#411

Post by iammisc »

redisman wrote: post #92
jacquesm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think you are right that there is significant overlap between 'extreme right' 'anti vaxx' 'climate denial' and quite possibly 'white power' and the modern version of Christianity as well, it would be nice to see some hard proof or a refutation of this.

Not just modern Christianity. It had a “softer” phase for the last hundred or so years but it’s been a authoritarian and power hungry organization for over a thousand years.

all philosophies are authoritarian and power-hungry. It's not like the libertarians and anarchists just sit by passively and wait.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#412

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

SigmundA wrote: post #220
pessimizer wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a severely underestimated group of religious people who think that only God controls the weather, His reasons for what he does with it are not for you to evaluate, and that saying that humans can change the weather is blasphemy. It's easy to make fun of, but the most direct experience that people have of a God who controls the universe would be the weather. These people need to be approached theologically; s…

I have never been able to get my head around the religious paradox of God has a plan and free will. Can we make choices that effect the outcome of things or is it all part of Gods plan? It can't be both right? Did God create everything including free will or does it exist outside of his control? I don't blame my program when it does something wrong, I mean I wrote the code that tells it how to behave.

Religions are narrative patchworks which are used to justify things. Not to explain them.

What you've found with your question is one of the many places the narratives don't join up, and the fraying sticky tape shows through.

There's no point trying to make sense of this, because there is no sense to be made. Ultimately it's about people using story telling to make themselves feel better and more reassured that their tribe is safe and stable.

Not coincidentally, this also allows some opportunists to make themselves richer, more powerful, and more important. Surprisingly frequently this also provides opportunities for extra sexual activity.

The stories don't need to make sense beyond that. They just need to look like an acceptable narrative salad made of tasty story bits. In fact it's better that they don't make sense, because then they can reduce believers to a pre-rational state where "You just have to believe!" makes them more credulous.

You can see the effects clearly with climate change and Covid. Some people try to understand the facts to make reliable predictions and offer realistic solutions.

Others can't fit these challenges into a religious world view. So they fall back into outright denial and/or use them as yet another excuse to welcome the apocalypse and their own imaginary personal salvation.

None of this is a function of raw IQ. You can be smart and still be infected by these distorting ideological viruses.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#413

Post by bena »

User23 wrote: post #261
rootusrootus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example my pointing out that climate zealots act like zealots is observably true That's a tautology. Perhaps you could explain who exactly is a 'climate zealot', and why, without just painting everyone who doesn't agree with you as one.

First, “observably” means I was making an empirical claim. The basis may be tautological which is to say logically sound, but the key point is that I and others have observed zealotry. Second, persons who are climate zealots are the ones who act like zealots about climate, rather than pornography or any other number of hobbyhorses that zealots obsess over. I think it’s fair to assume most everyone reading this is edu…

His point is that saying "zealots are zealots" doesn't say anything. Or the people who are zealots are those acting like zealots.

Once again, that's tautology. He's asking you what actions are those of a zealot. If I recycle, am I zealot? If I say global warming is real, am I zealot? If I sabotage a petroleum refinery, am I zealot? There are degrees to actions.

He knows what he'd define a zealot as, but he wants you to define what it means to you. But you want to dodge the question by saying "it's obvious".

You've also defined anyone downvoting him or you as zealots. But. You could be wrong. I mean, your logic is bad, which is a good reason to downvote you in general. They're not disagreeing with your self-professed non-position on climate change. They're disagreeing with your refusal to engage with others in good faith.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#414

Post by Tarsul »

polote wrote: post #395
linuxhansl wrote: post #303

Imagine an asteroid would be on trajectory to collide with earth in (say) 2025. Possible order of hypothetical events: 1. Scientist discover the asteroid. Calculate risk of collision. 2. Asteroid comes closer, probability of impact is calculated as high. 3. People will start saying that we cannot let our economy be controlled by the specter of an asteroid. 4. The asteroid becomes visible. You can see it with your bar…

I doubt something like that can happen actually. Global warming is less obvious risk than an asteroid and still today most of the big economies start transitioning to greener energy. Not at a fast pace, but still a lot of work is being done. It doesn't mean enough effort is being done to not destroy humankind but there are things happening

the asteroid doesn't necessarily destroy the whole population of the earth.. just like climate change probably won't kill everyone.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#415

Post by throwayaaaa »

linuxhansl wrote: post #303

Imagine an asteroid would be on trajectory to collide with earth in (say) 2025. Possible order of hypothetical events: 1. Scientist discover the asteroid. Calculate risk of collision. 2. Asteroid comes closer, probability of impact is calculated as high. 3. People will start saying that we cannot let our economy be controlled by the specter of an asteroid. 4. The asteroid becomes visible. You can see it with your bar…

Nobody wants to solve the technological problem of pulling carbon from the air.

Carbon sequestration consumes more power than bitcoin mining ?

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#416

Post by feoren »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #352
lmilcin wrote: post #8

Who still believes global warming does not exist? I am currently listening to audiobook of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (1998). It has a paragraph on global warming and trying to convince POTUS it is real. And POTUS not wanting to act on it because it would be too large economic drag on US. This book is almost quarter of century old.

There is a very prevalent group of people on HN who don't deny that global warming is happening, but strongly deny that it is a serious problem. This group deeply believes that technology will solve their problems, no matter how large. All that is required is believing in this strongly enough. There is a nearly rabid belief that everything will be fine because "technology" will find a way. What these people fail to r…

It's less that the argument is heretical, and more that it's based on some false premises.

First, it's possible to accept that climate change is a huge (and largely man-made) problem, and also believe technology will fix it.

Second, you're talking about a centuries-scale trend about the relationship between technology and energy, and we're talking about the technological breakthroughs that are possible in the next couple decades if we all work together on this important problem. While it may be true that energy begets technology, technology also begets technology.

Thirdly, you seem to be under-estimating how much energy we can actually get from the Sun with today's technology. We have the tech and economic output right now to completely supply our energy demand with the sun within 10-20 years via worldwide solar farms and a trans-continental grid (so the daytime side can provide for the nighttime side). Again, if the entire planet comes together to make that happen. The only thing we don't have is the will. Telling people "we're doomed, it's too late, we'll never have the technology because of this flimsy historical correlation, just lay down and die" harms the global will to fight the problem, rather than helps.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#417

Post by panzagl »

brtkdotse wrote: post #281
panzagl wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the best solution science has been able to come up with in all that time is that we should not eat meat or drive a car. Maybe the population in general will take it seriously when they're told to do more than engage in Puritanical self-flagellation about the evils of Western society.

Uh, no. Science has been _screaming_ for a carbon tax. Eat all the meat and drive all you want, but be prepared to pay up for the externalities that have been “free” so far.

So we'll charge the Masai the same for their cows that we'll charge a Texan?

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#418

Post by rapind »

lhorie wrote: post #371
munk-a wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's healthy and necessary to make fun of fundamentalists - I think the issue comes when people make efforts at taking them seriously and give their platform a modicum of respect at a national level. The US has a severe issue with fundamentalist entrenchment in media and government at the moment and it's going to take a while to kick them all out. Evangelism is an extremist ideology that is causing ongoing ha…

I find it amusing to compare how we treat fundamentalists vs how we treat children. They both can be extremely stubborn and say the darnest things, but with one group, people think ridicule is going to yield good results, even though with the other, that's a big no-no. You know you're not going to get a good result from a yelling contest with your kid about who's more right, so I don't understand the reasoning that d…

This analogy is deeply flawed.

Your kids brain is still developing and they are still actively learning. Taking different approaches helps.

That is almost always not the case with a fundamentalist.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#419

Post by ManuelKiessling »

noobly wrote: post #259
eloff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've done that though. The climate stayed in a narrow 1 degree Celsius range since the end of the last ice age. It's likely that very stability that allowed agriculture and civilization to flourish. That epoch is called the Holocene. We've left that now and entered a new era. The Anthropocine, where the major driver in the climate is now us.

From what I understand, the sun has also been getting hotter, hasn't it? I agree that man contributes to climate change, but quantifying this is where I think the conversation gets interesting. I haven't really gone very far down this hole though as it seems too muddled. And then if you do conclude man is primarily at fault, what do you do? The US is only responsible for so much output, for example, and sources like…

The US is only responsible for for so much of worldwide murders. Why trying to limit the number of murders in the US, then? It won’t change the total number of murders on the planet in a significant way.
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