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1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

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Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#411

Post by jl_agilebits »

neon_electro wrote: post #394
jl_agilebits wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. I'm a feature developer for 1Password, and I want to clarify a few things. I've already posted this elsewhere, but I've seen multiple threads spreading misinformation that our technical decisions are being driven by VC funding. This could not be farther from the truth. We have been working on these changes long before we received any form of outside investments. Over the past few years, we've been working on cons…

Hi, long-time user, customer, and word-of-mouth recommender of 1Password for the nine years my Hacker News account has been active (give or take a few months). This is a big announcement that I'll have to chew on to understand what this means. Can you quantify the "needless development churn and hassle for both customers and our support team" in some way? Presumably, 1Password 7 and its ancestors used native macOS AP…

> Can you quantify the "needless development churn and hassle for both customers and our support team" in some way?

Sure, happy to elaborate on that! Since we were rebuilding our app from the ground up, it was a significant slow-down on development to create a user interface for both Electron and SwiftUI, requiring two separate teams of platform developers for every feature we needed to implement. There were also concerns by the documentation and support teams that we would need two separate sets of instructions for many common tasks, due to small differences in layout and look between the applications. Eventually, we had to make the tough decision to focus on a single common framework for desktop. This will allow us to ship features across every single platform far quicker than we could before.

> I'd be hopeful that whatever tradeoffs y'all will be making moving to Electron, the "native" feel of the macOS client wouldn't be sacrificed.

We've tried our very best to keep the experience the same so that the transition from 7 to 8 is smooth, and from my point of view 1Password 8 feels right at home on macOS - I especially love our new translucent sidebar. That being said, this is still in an early access stage, so there are bound to be hiccups and UI issues that need to be resolved. Please let us know if you run into any problems or have suggestions on how we can improve. And thank you for being a long-time user!

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#413

Post by frosted-flakes »

pianoben wrote: post #397
frosted-flakes wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they remove support for local vaults from their mobile apps, you can continue using the classic self-synced method. I sync my 1Password vault across Android and Windows using SyncThing, using 1Password 7 and the legacy browser extension in Firefox. I don't get the inline 1Password prompt in password inputs, but that's the only disadvantage (Ctrl+Alt+\ brings up the password selector anywhere in the OS, not jus…

They have, as far as I can tell. Last month I tried to set up a new 1PW installation and exhaustively searched through the app menus - no sign of standalone vault support anywhere. It's possible that it was hidden because I had previously signed in to my work's 1PW account, maybe, or that it's hidden too well for me to find. I don't know, and would be happy to learn either way.

I just tried it on Android (after resetting the app), and it's still an option to use a local vault at first setup.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#414

Post by mirthflat83 »

jl_agilebits wrote: post #356
maxharris wrote: post #7

1Password used to be native on the Mac, and now it's an Electron app. I'm not going to be using 1Password for this reason, and I encourage you to do the same. Subscription business models and non-native apps are hallmarks of rot by VCs. Dump them!

Hi. I'm a feature developer for 1Password, and I want to clarify a few things. I've already posted this elsewhere, but I've seen multiple threads spreading misinformation that our technical decisions are being driven by VC funding. This could not be farther from the truth. We have been working on these changes long before we received any form of outside investments. Over the past few years, we've been working on cons…

I am very unhappy that 1P is moving to Electron for macOS for the reasons people here have reiterated a million times. I am actively looking for alternatives now.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#415

Post by js2 »

For folks looking for a pay-for-it-once app with Mac, iOS, Android and Windows clients, that can sync via Dropbox or Webdav:

https://www.passwordwallet.com/

I've been using this for probably a decade now. The UI is ugly as sin, but it works well. I use the Apple Keychain for almost everything, but for my critical passwords, I have copies in PasswordWallet.

PasswordWallet has one feature on macOS that I've not seen in any other app: auto-type, for those times you can't paste into a password field. I use it rarely, but it's nice to have when I need it.

(I have no idea if the Android or Windows clients are any good. I use it only on macOS and iOS.)

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#416

Post by marcinzm »

jl_agilebits wrote: post #345
nothinggoesaway wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be an appropriate riposte to [1], a vitriolic comment that draws the line between VC money and Electron, but not to parent. Parent makes a lot of sense, actually, in context of the submission headline. There was no misinformation here at all. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28145755

Thank you for pointing me to that thread. I'll make sure to respond there as well. I did (incorrectly) assume that the parent was talking about Electron, so that's my bad. That being said, our decision to move away from licensing is absolutely not being driven by VC funding, so the parent comment is also spreading misinformation. We were building a subscription-based model all the way back in 2014, and we're phasing…

In my experience the impact of VC money isn't directly seen by engineers but is rather a subtle top down shift in direction. Growth matters more, revenue matters more, existing users matter a bit less versus future users, features that impede this are removed, etc. Feature direction shifts slowly but surely.

The goal of a VC company is to either grow big or die. That's it. Risky bets at the expense of existing users are expected if current growth does not meet expectations. Worst case everyone quits the app and you go bankrupt. VCs expect that 9 time out of 10 so no big deal as long as the 10th makes it big.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#418

Post by ShakataGaNai »

FreezerburnV wrote: post #50

I guess I’m the outlier in being very happy with 1Password and fine with paying for the subscription service. Not only is 1Password the best password manager I’ve used, but it makes it seamless to share stuff with my wife. I don’t care if 8 is an Electron app either, considering I usually interact with it via the browser anyway with their extension. (Also I know that the majority of what they wrote for it is Rust and…

I'm with you. It's seemless, it works (on everyplatform) and it's easy to use.

At the end of the day if you want a password vault that is sync'd across devices, you're trusting someone...somewhere. Be that 1password, dropbox, or even that Linode you manually rsync your data to. You've got to decide what is the biggest risk for your own personal use cases.

For me, I'd rather store my sensitive data with a company that has demonstrated a repeated push to keep my data as secure as possible, even from itself. It's their core business, all they focus on.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#419

Post by andrecarini »

shapefrog wrote: post #318
andrecarini wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am cognizant of this risk, and assume it, because security is always a spectrum between Secure and Convenient. Absolutely. But also, in such setup, the security benefit of 2FA/OTP codes are negligible at best since there are no conditions under which only one factor could be compromised without also having the other factor leaked (assuming you're using unique passwords for each identity, which is the entire point…

> there are no conditions under which only one factor could be compromised without also having the other factor leaked Man in the middle attack, Phishing attack, Over the shoulder attack, Brute force attack, Keylogger, Http (not https) traffic sniffing, 'Breech' of the site and realisation they host their passwords in clear text on an unsecured db online. Then there is human error; typing password into wrong site, gi…

> Man in the middle attack > Http (not https) traffic sniffing

If you can see the password, you can also see the time-based OTP, and you can use those to gain access.

> Phishing attack > Over the shoulder attack

If you can convince someone to provide you their password, it's highly likely you'll also be able to convince them to also provide you their time-based OTP.

> Brute force attack

A successful brute-force attack on the vault (unlikely) means you've lost both your password and your OTP secret. A sucessful brute-force attack against a remote account using a safe password (re: password managers) is very unlikely!

> 'Breech' of the site and realisation they host their passwords in clear text on an unsecured db online

The password and the OTP secret themselves have no value (given that you're using unique passwords for each account). If the attacker has breached the service back-end then it's gameover anyways, regardless of 2FA for user accounts.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#420

Post by mirthflat83 »

larkost wrote: post #401
jl_agilebits wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Users don't desire to have the same UI across different OS environments, it's only an app's developers that care about that. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I personally enjoy having consistent user interfaces across the apps that I use, and there are many other people that would say the same, so I would avoid making broad assumptions. From our perspective, consistent user interfaces are a win-win…

This is a curious response. I would have used the same reasoning as an argument against Electron (or similar unified development systems): they are not consistent with all of the other native apps that people use. I don't know if your reasoning is that looking like a web app means it is consistent with those apps, or that the apps look the same across platforms, but neither of those arguments are compelling to me. I…

This comment is so well written
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