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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

livingafi.com

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#411

Post by nicbou »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

> Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" Great insight that is worth repeating. One of my biggest problems with FIRE discussions is how much they reinforce the idea that retirement is a prerequisite for achieving happiness. This leads a lot of FIRE-minded people to double down…

I also noticed that many FIRE people don't actually know what to do after retiring, because work was their whole life until that point.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#412

Post by nicbou »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

I'm in a similar situation, and I describe it as every day being Saturday. I don't want to waste my Saturday doing nothing, and I have a few obligations, but by and large, my days have no structure.

I end up doing a bit of everything. I garden, cook, play in the garage, ride my motorcycle, go camping etc. Every once in a while, something grabs me and I'm free to pursue it.

A few years ago, I joked that the American dream sucks, and that the Victorian dream is where it's at. I want to have enough free time to be a gentleman scientist, join societies and make art. Now I realise it's not that silly.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#413

Post by nicbou »

mikepurvis wrote: post #114
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

Having done it now for a year, it sounds like you're pretty happy with how it's going. Are you satisfied with what you've achieved? Or is part of the mindset shift that you're just not thinking in those terms any more and are looking only to the day to day? In my working life, I've only ever taken about a month off at a time, but every time I've taken a longer break like that, I end up ultimately feeling dissatisfied…

Tbe feeling of permanence changes things a bit. It's not a vacation from something but a new state of being.

You can then pick up new hobbies, or just return to old hobbies with renewed enthusiasm. You can do things that matter even if they're of no economic interest. You can hone skills that aren't career-related.

I think that it also requires a shift in values.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#414

Post by konschubert »

temp8964 wrote: post #30
kevinwang wrote: post #5

This person also posted an amazing, unvarnished update recently (about 5-6 years later): https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-u...

The conclusion came to me is that extreme working and extreme no-working are both bad in the long run. All you need is a work-family-life balance. I am also glad that the author now opens the door for getting married and even having a kid. Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. The psychological / economic needs for living with a f…

I think there is huge a difference between working because you have to, and working because you want to.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#415

Post by journey_16162 »

jancsika wrote: post #170
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

I'm basically the opposite of you. There is a pile of merge requests I need to review when I get time. And the reason I want to review X, Y, and Z is because I personally desire to see improvements X, Y, and Z to the niche FOSS software I maintain. Funny thing is, we are on a forum named "Hacker News" and I'd speculate that I'm the outlier and yours is the common case.

There's a difference between working on your own stuff vs. working purely to trade time for money as an employee. Sometimes you can have both I guess , but I think it's the exception, not the norm.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#417

Post by daddylongstroke »

yarcob wrote: post #221
balfirevic wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they might be better off scaling back to a sustainable 40hr/week job 40hr/week is the unsustainable part.

40h/week of work leaves very little time for household, kids, exercise, side projects, and relaxing. I think 20h/week is a more reasonable target if you want to enjoy things beside work. Of course it's okay to work 40h/week if you really want to, or even more, if you enjoy it, but you should really think hard about whether that's really what you want, or if it's just what your employer wants you to do.

This!! I've wanted to drop down to 18-20 hours TOPS for years. Being in tech, I haven't seen a single opportunity for this being a possibility. When I talk to my managers about it (mostly in large orgs, but even in smaller 12-people shops) they look at me like I'm out of my fucking mind. Response always is "no, you can't be productive enough in 18 hours to contribute meaningfully to the product".

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#418

Post by kerkeslager »

war1025 wrote: post #372
kerkeslager wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally think it is a sign of modern hubris to assume that effective family planning didn't exist prior to 1960s and the advent of birth control. Effective toward what end? Having kids when and only when you want them? Sure. "Only have sex when you want a kid" has always been an option. Having kids when and only when you want them, and fulfilling your biological urges? Not so much. I'm glad for you that your f…

> Having kids when and only when you want them? Sure. "Only have sex when you want a kid" has always been an option. > Having kids when and only when you want them, and fulfilling your biological urges? Not so much. Unsure if you're being obstinate or ignorant, but we've been married a decade and I assure you we have had sex several orders of magnitude more than the three times we conceived. Baby = Egg + sperm. Keep…

Of course, I assumed that you had sex many times more than you conceived. Keep in mind, I wasn't the other person who commented.

If pulling out, having sex while not ovulating, or whatever you did, is satisfying for you, great! I applaud your satisfaction.

However, as I said not everyone is satisfied by that kind of sex. To say that the limitations imposed by a lack of birth control don't exist, or aren't important, fails to capture the depth, breadth, and variety of human sexuality.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#419

Post by war1025 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #418
war1025 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having kids when and only when you want them? Sure. "Only have sex when you want a kid" has always been an option. > Having kids when and only when you want them, and fulfilling your biological urges? Not so much. Unsure if you're being obstinate or ignorant, but we've been married a decade and I assure you we have had sex several orders of magnitude more than the three times we conceived. Baby = Egg + sperm. Keep…

Of course, I assumed that you had sex many times more than you conceived. Keep in mind, I wasn't the other person who commented. If pulling out, having sex while not ovulating, or whatever you did, is satisfying for you, great! I applaud your satisfaction. However, as I said not everyone is satisfied by that kind of sex. To say that the limitations imposed by a lack of birth control don't exist, or aren't important,…

Perhaps in the future you could avoid leading with things such as:

> that's about as useful as a story of how someone prayed and their mom's cancer went away.

All I did was comment and say, "Hey, we did this and it worked for us" and you replied with the equivalent of "Go fuck yourself, I don't want to hear it"

Of course modern birth control opens many doors, I don't think that was ever in question. It's a highly personal choice and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Anyway, cheers. Hope you're having a good day.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#420

Post by olah_1 »

xsmasher wrote: post #352
olah_1 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this line: > And she wasn’t trying that hard anyway, because she had acquired, somehow, New Life Dreams, which had to do with Conspicuous Consumption and Keeping Up and being Visibly Awesome — dreams which are at odds with my own. The desire to be seen and take part in society is fundamentally human. Yes, you can overdo it, but you can also underdo it. There is nothing wrong with going to nice restaurants, post…

You could say that comparing social status is innate and natural to some people, but to call Conspicuous Consumption "fundamentally human" is overstatement. Different things make different people happy. Some people enjoy having the biggest TV on the block. Other people take pride in NOT having a TV.

> but to call Conspicuous Consumption "fundamentally human" is overstatement.

My take is that what his wife wanted was not “conspicuous consumption” but rather just a healthy social life.

Granted that is just what i gleaned from his statements.

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