Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real? • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#411

Post by perryizgr8 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:14 AM UTC

Glawen wrote: post #350

TearsInTheRain wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk why any politicians arent picking up on foreign price controls as a means of lowering costs in the US. It should be a part of the discussion during any trade talks with Europe.

How on earth would that happen? It will just be as expensive in Europe as in the US. You really think that nobody outside the US are making drugs? Like no drugs are ever developed in Europe??

> It will just be as expensive in Europe as in the US.

Cost can be shared among the US and Europe populations. So per user cost would come down by a lot.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#412

Post by throwaway743 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:16 AM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #291

dv_dt wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? https://www.rand.org/news/press/2021/01/28.html > Prescription Drug Prices in the United States Are 2.56 Times Those in Other Countries

So are the nannies and the landscapers. Are these also a racket?

Are you that out of touch to not realize those services are luxuries and not life saving health treatments?

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#413

Post by perryizgr8 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:17 AM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #260

fallingknife wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a medical condition with no cure, yet I still have to pay a doctor every 6 months to keep my prescription with no changes. Total racket.

Having a doctor verify that you're not having any issues with your prescription medication is pretty normal. Maybe you can find someone that'll do telehealth.

I shouldn't have to take permission from anyone to be able to buy the medicines I need. This is a cartel-type situation where your pharmacist won't sell you meds unless you pay a doctor.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#414

Post by R0b0t1 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:19 AM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #375

benrbray wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that the doctor is actively intervening in your medical treatment, so they have a responsibility to make sure they're getting it right. This person is free to stop taking their meds and die alone whenever they like. Visits to the doctor should be cheaper and more efficient, but people shouldn't stop going to the doctor.

I find it fascinating that the HN crowd complains about doctors being too expensive. I mean what is the comparative value that software developers add to society compared to doctors that justify their salaries (which are often on the same level or higher)?

Most people in IT related fields aren't at doctor level pay.

I suspect the sentiment is from commonly interacting with absolutely useless doctors. There are a lot of them.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#415

Post by perryizgr8 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:21 AM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #143

throwawayswede wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're part of the same mafia, Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America spent $8664000 in 2021 only on lobbying. https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders

That looks like a big number, but it is $8.6M ? Is that a lot?

It was purposefully written to mislead, hence the lack of commas or the M suffix. So yeah, it is definitely not a lot. For comparison, Facebook alone spent $17M on lobbying in 2019.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#416

Post by furyg3 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:29 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #301

hyperhopper wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a third issue: The high cost of medicines that are low cost to produce, and are sold at low cost elsewhere

This one is particularly prickly because the high cost paid in the US funds medical R&D and extremely expensive clinical trials which other countries are free riding on by imposing price controls. We still need to fund the R&D and clinical trials (unless they could be made less expensive somehow), so the most obvious solution would be to have other countries pay their fair share so the US could stop subsidizing every…

You're putting the cart before the horse here. The reason why the other developed nations get cheaper access to to medicine is because of collective bargaining from more organized insurance schemes (e.g. single payer), or because of price capping by governments. Not 'because' the US subsidizes R&D through high prices. The US pays high prices because it chooses as system in which that's acceptable, and the pharmaceutical companies design their own pricing around it.

If the US stopped the madness, the companies would rebalance their pricing systems. If what you say is true, maybe every other developed nation would have to pay more.

I'm skeptical of this entire theory, however. It's not like major pharmaceutical companies just barely breaking even, and are selling their products at a loss in Europe. There is a lot of room for profit margins to be squeezed.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#417

Post by coryrc » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:33 AM UTC

hug wrote: post #362

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a 100 year old drug. There are newer formulations that are faster acting, longer lasting, easier to administer, etc. They're newer so they're still under patent so they're a lot more expensive (because the rest of the world makes the US pay to develop the newer formulations). When insurance is paying for it, people prefer the newer formulations. Then, since most people have insurance, there wasn't enough of…

This doesn't pass the smell test. Anyone making the decade-old version of insulin and selling it for 1% of the price would corner a large portion of the market immediately. Anyone without good health insurance, which is a large and increasing part of the population, would immediately jump on the lower priced version. And since when are insurance companies excited to pay for the more expensive drug with limited extra…

You can buy the old one for cheap now: https://diabetesstrong.com/walmart-insulin/

That's 6% not 1% of the cost of new ones, though.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#418

Post by namdnay » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:34 AM UTC

andyferris wrote: post #349

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one is particularly prickly because the high cost paid in the US funds medical R&D and extremely expensive clinical trials which other countries are free riding on by imposing price controls. We still need to fund the R&D and clinical trials (unless they could be made less expensive somehow), so the most obvious solution would be to have other countries pay their fair share so the US could stop subsidizing every…

Europe does drug R&D and still manages to sell their drugs at a reasonable price to sick people (generally because their governments utilize their buying power for the good of their citizens). It seems to me that US people have been sold FUD by there own pharma companies, if I’m honest.

> Europe does drug R&D and still manages to sell their drugs at a reasonable price to sick people

Every European drug firm also sells in the US, so I suspect that's taken into account in their business model

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#419

Post by amelius » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:36 AM UTC

runeks wrote: post #406

o8r3oFTZPE wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

""Big Pharma" in the eyes of the public..." What the public does not see is how the patent system is gamed by generic sellers. How this works is not something that can be easily explained in a single paragraph. The problem is specifically mentioned in the Fact Sheet/Order. This is a legitimate antitrust issue but it is exceedingly difficult to succeed in the courts.

> How this works is not something that can be easily explained in a single paragraph. Where can we find the explanation?

I think they mean that existing generic drugs are repurposed for new medical conditions. Where the new condition is then patented.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#420

Post by simonh » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 8:36 AM UTC

anthony_barker wrote: post #378

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one is particularly prickly because the high cost paid in the US funds medical R&D and extremely expensive clinical trials which other countries are free riding on by imposing price controls. We still need to fund the R&D and clinical trials (unless they could be made less expensive somehow), so the most obvious solution would be to have other countries pay their fair share so the US could stop subsidizing every…

I would argue Big Pharma free rides its self on research from universities around the world which are mostly publicly funded and not for profit. The US represents less than 34% of global research. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17354441/

I'm sure they benefit from public research, lost of industries do, but even public Universities are perfectly capable of patenting their discoveries and getting paid by companies using them. Ours here in the UK certainly do this.