May I suggest the confessional next time.
What it's like to be cancelled
411–420 of 613 posts
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#412I recently gave a test lecture about a topic in statistics, where I showed a meme that a statistics professor I follow shared on her Twitter feed [1]. I thought it would be safe to include as it didn't get any negative reactions on Twitter and was already being used by a professor in her university class in the US. After the talk I immediately got called out by the women's representative on the hiring commission, who…
>I have been thinking about this incident for several days now, as I really can't make up my mind if I did something wrong or not by including the meme. If anyone want to add his/her opinion I'd be grateful therefore.
As others have said, you did absolutely nothing wrong.
Feel free to point the hiring commission to The New York Times (https://twitter.com/AlecMacGillis/status/1133724550871560192>).
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#413What he's supposed to have done: “I was terrible to women. I preyed on them. I ceaselessly hit on them. I pressured them into sex. I got too drunk and did all manner of dumb things.” None of which is illegal. It's not even a matter for civil litigation. He was not accused of doing this as a boss in an organization. Or in a workplace context. There were apparently no criminal charges. No EEOC complaints filed.[1] No a…
Do not associate with people who have tribal Twitter bios and you'll avoid said slander.
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Citing that no one officially lodged a criminal complaint isn't a counterpoint. Most sexual assault isn't pursued. Serial creeps are plying their trade right now. Actually it is a counterpoint. If someone accuses me of a crime, then refuses to pursue any prosecution of that crime, and then expects me to suffer consequences for that crime, that's a gross injustice. That's why we have a justice system.
Okay, counterpoint. Say you were 50yo a restaurant owner, and launched a party for the arrival of your new cook. At the end of the party, you proposed to the 19yo apprentice to drive her home while she was waiting at the bus stop. As she live outside town and don't really want to wait an hour for the night bus, she accept. In the car, you managed to rape her, then throw her out. Devastated, she go home to her then bo…
> All that, that's gross injustice, too?
Hold on, in your little narrative, how are the accusers sure that there was a rape?
No, seriously, that's the point of the justice system - determine if the crime happened.
So, if anyone ever calls you a rapist, then you are one? Or are you arguing that these rules are only for other people, not for you?
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
I completely believe that whatever happened to you was totally unreasonable, but try to understand that from another person's point of view, the broad "you must be against freedom of speech" thing is "toxic", just as you have experienced "toxic" behavior from the opposite side of the issue.
I'm not saying being against freedom of speech is toxic. I'm saying getting put on a hate speech list for being pro freedom of speech is. I've had great discussions with friends and family that disagree with me on free speech. On Twitter people don't seem to treat each other as people, but as representatives of a given ideology.
I understand all that, and agree. Separately, I'm saying that labeling people on one side of this issue as "against free speech" is a common quip, and is also toxic. It's similar to labeling pro-choice people as pro-murder.
I expect people on Twitter to fall into that hole, and I don't engage with Twitter for that reason. I have more respect for HN users. For example, the sibling to this reply refers to me, saying "These people are a lost cause. They cannot be convinced of the value of free speech." I'd like to keep sentiments like that at bay here, and I have hope for that (see the fact that the comment I'm referring to is dead).
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good for you for doing the right thing. Let me ask you - did you feel like the hate thrown at you on Twitter was completely organic? Was there anything that made you question the motives of the involved Twits? I ask because the whole smear job vs Stallman felt quite manufactured to me; from the initial Vice article horrifically misquoting him, to the weirdly rabid hate towards anyone defending him on forums like this…
> from the initial Vice article horrifically misquoting him, to the weirdly rabid hate towards anyone defending him on forums like this and Reddit In fairness those are both very common features of cancellations. Another that comes to mind is Damore, who never wrote what most people attributed to him. I've had perfectly clear for a long time that even smart people will misunderstand the clearest statement if it's wha…
I think there are also some topics where people are conditioned to respond emotionally. Once responding emotionally of course a fair reading is out the window.
I do think there is a lot of silence due to social expectations, also probably many of the likes/shares with little additional commentary come from such expectations. But IME the people that write the long rants tearing X person apart are either legitimately upset, or have an agenda way beyond trying to fit social expectations.
Of course you can't have mob justice without both the instigators and the larger crowd giving passive support. But I don't think it's accurate to assume it's purely people wanting to fit in. Many of the cases that gain traction have an emotional core.
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's disappointing how many people say "apologies don't work". The purpose of an apology isn't to salvage your reputation, it is to help victims move forward. Well, if the "victims" don't move on after the apology, then the apology didn't work, did it? :-)
Moving forward doesn't mean moving on. An apology that admits the wrong lets the victim stop doubting or blaming themselves. So the anger comes after it is acknowledged that what was done to you is wrong. In that way, anger after an apology actually means it may have worked.
> In that way, anger after an apology actually means it may have worked.
If that's true (you will get punished for apologising), then there is no incentive for the guilty party to ever apologise.
Who would want more punishment on top of what they already had?
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey man - be careful reading stuff alright? Probably best to just take a breather from reading stuff about yourself, it can't feel good. Humans weren't designed to be yelled at by more people than you can fit in a room.
Public apologies are the new porn and bullying people into providing them is a real addiction for some. These depressed people use "consequences" as a brief hit of superiority, allowing them to escape the reality of their own failed lives. ...and as quickly as it picks them up, it is gone again, and they then need to search for that next dose of "justice". Complexity, self-reflection, nuance, are all distractions fro…
This is either a weird rhetorical device you're using to discount opposing viewpoints (they're all just trying to "escape the reality of their own failed lives"..."they are worthless"), or some sort of Jungian projection.
Sexual harassment is an enormous problem in every industry. People who just want to do good work and be a part and contribute become targets for predators who objectify, diminish and harass. Culturally it became not okay and people realized they were heard and that these people could have consequences.
A lot of people get riled up about such cases because they have faced similar situations themselves [see also how instances of racism/bigotry can become viral -- it taps into a latent anger]. It becomes cathartic and representative. A movement.
And the creeps of the world surely must have taken notice by now. The imagined Lothorios can stick to actual social events because it's pretty established that it's not a good idea at work, or anything remotely work related (including trade shows and conferences).
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, counterpoint. Say you were 50yo a restaurant owner, and launched a party for the arrival of your new cook. At the end of the party, you proposed to the 19yo apprentice to drive her home while she was waiting at the bus stop. As she live outside town and don't really want to wait an hour for the night bus, she accept. In the car, you managed to rape her, then throw her out. Devastated, she go home to her then bo…
> All that, that's gross injustice, too? Hold on, in your little narrative, how are the accusers sure that there was a rape? No, seriously, that's the point of the justice system - determine if the crime happened. So, if anyone ever calls you a rapist, then you are one? Or are you arguing that these rules are only for other people, not for you?
I someone calls you an asshole, and people listen, you have no recourse to the justice system to recover your reputation and retain your professional connections.
Re: What it's like to be cancelled
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I really wish there was a bit more introspection into how you see your past behaviour in the light of being cancelled. I don't get this comment. The author says explicitly that he was an asshole in the past, that he changed who he was, and that he apologized privately to the people he had hurt. What more do you want?
I think this quote from the article is a good example: >I don’t think I can fully describe the heart-wrenching pain of seeing your life & career crumbling around you and feeling utterly powerless to stop it. I thought I was fast approaching my inevitable and permanent end. I don’t cry often, but I cried a lot that night. The author has harsh words for his previous behavior, but the question I have is about the sentim…
> At the end of the day no one has an obligation to like you. It is not up to the perpetrator to decide what the appropriate restorative process is. We do not need a legal system to give us permission to dislike someone.
I agree with this, but here we're not talking about just disliking someone. We're talking about cancellation--someone's livelihood is taken away (he was fired, from multiple jobs). Just disliking someone does not justify doing that. We don't have a right to have other people like us, but we do have a right to make a living, and we should have legal recourse if false accusations impact our livelihood.