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Europe's Software Problem

berthub.eu

411–420 of 585 posts

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#411

Some of the stuff in this article may be fine, and trying to raise money is certainly harder in Europe, but I thought one of the biggest drags on Europe's tech industry is poor pay for engineers and other tech talent? In the U.S., going into a tech career can be one of the best ways to make a high salary quickly -- especially without needing an advanced degree. Without this incentive, you'll have a lot less people pu…

The reason US developers are paid more is because US startups are much more successful. As to why they are so much more successful is a different question.

They are paid more, because the US is a much more expensive place to live (at least in California).

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#412

> For one, we lack the imagination and vision to launch something without knowing how it might eventually make money I don't think there is lack of imagination. The biggest barrier for any person who wants to launch something is: paperwork around establishing a company. In some countries you have to pay every month some amount of money if you want to be a freelancer, in others you need to setup a sole proprietorship,…

> Also: being a software engineer/computer programmer in Europe is not as sexy as it is in USA. It's getting better, yes, but here the "engineer" is the last monkey. Managers and sales are the ones who get the credit. So, European mentality also plays a role here. Eventually those manager and sales people will learn that they need developers to build stuff, or else they can't manage anyone because nothing has been bu…

I'm afraid that this is the same in the US.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, everybody wants to be a manager because mere developers is not high enough status. In the US, a 45yo DB engineer is akin to highly skilled wizard.

Developers are the modern bricklayers that just sit by the computer and find what to copy and paste from stackoverflow.

Yes, that is what lazy, crap developers do

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something I’ve noticed working with European people and also traveling. I think there is a cycle here where because working with software is considered low status, many good software people leave, and lots of smart people probably do not go into the field at all unless they truly love software. This would tend to drive the talent pool down, IMO, which keeps away good software jobs, keeping it low status. In t…

> In the US for example writing software is usually considered wholly different from “IT” whereas in Europe IT encompasses both. That’s probably another thing bringing its status down. You are grouping software engineers with people plugging in printers and solving Karen’s support ticket (no offense IT people). oh boy, if you think IT is just pluggin in printers and fixing easy support tickets you are easily mistaken…

Yea that's exactly the poster's point. IT in the U.S. is tech support, you're describing something similar to devops

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#415
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute vast majority of "GDPR popups" are actually illegal under GDPR. Unfortunately, law enforcement has been asleep at the wheel.

Unfortunately the law was so bad even its creators can’t implement/understand/respect it.

Is it, though? I thought they are only required if the site is setting tracking cookies. Is that not straight forward enough?

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#416

I'm a European, living in Europe, developing software. Lack of imagination is not our problem. It's so good that we supply our best talent to the US where it does extremely well revolutionizing AI, designing hardware for Apple, developing games, stream online music, etc. E.g. Amazon's CTO is Dutch. Basically the person that has been running AWS. The people and the education system are fine. Europe does have a few iss…

Probably it is harder to scale startups in Europe vs the US. But is that something nations should optimize for?

And if so, what priority should be given to "ease of rapid growth for startups" vs many other issues that determine economic growth and a population's well being?

Also, how much of the problem is due to the issues you raise vs other factors such amount of money spent in R&D? The US has a huge amount of "defense spending" but in fact a lot of that is dedicated to funding research in Universities and direct job creation. Maybe Europe just needs more research Universities, more labs and more state investment into technology. The recent Moderna breakthrough was in part due to a $25 million DARPA investment into the RNA vaccine idea.

As for the issues you mention; solving bureaucratic issues would make things more efficient, and it is definitely desirable. However, I would argue that a heterogeneous market (in terms of language and culture) is more of an advantage than a liability.

Having many cultures and languages could be akin to having biodiversity. Different outlooks in life, different ways of expressing ideas, different ways of thinking can contribute to the development of culture and technology. Look at the Galapago effect that languages had in early computing. The Japanese were able to develop their own vision of "computing" and came up with their own innovations due in part that early western computers couldn't handle Japanese.

Languages and cultures can serve as natural protectionist barriers that allow for each region to develop their own home industries, allowing them to catch up to the world while retaining significant chunks of new wealth creation for their own. Yes, wealth creation is good, but its also important to look at how wealth is distributed. Very unequal societies can break down and lose their cohesion. Cohesion and trust are important features of rich countries. Perhaps many of the issues the US dealing with is because of the huge level of inequalities it has.

Finally, is translation and localization really that hard? Is it that expensive to hire some sales & marketing staff in new markets where you could be making tons of money? I bet translation costs and such are less than a percentage of what Google spent expanding its search engine.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#417
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As EUropean living in a different country for work, is not that easy at all. Try to do your taxes in Swedish or German or French.. Or try to have a social life with people that while could speak English will probably switch to their own language when in more than 2-3 person. Yes of course you can learn the language, but dont think you can be proficient in a couple of year, especially if working 40h/week, and still yo…

> will probably switch to their own language when in more than 2-3 person. That's just rude and why would you want to socialise with such people. I had some great experiences and even when I was the only person not speaking the local language, everyone spoke English in my presence. There is plenty of people that have standards and if you cannot find them at a given time, just focus on something else.

Isn't it a bit much to expect everyone to accommodate you? What if some don't speak English?

It could be rude but not necessarily. Context matters

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the intention behind such a proposal, history of unintended consequences of government intensives should stop any sensible person from implementing anything remotely like that. Do you remember how one company promised people a free shirt for open source contributions, and how it resulted in an epic shitstorm of garbage patches? Just a few months ago. Now, imagine this, but with actual money instead of T-…

This is for public policy people to figure out. They do stuff like that all the time. Of course it's not easy. But if it works, can be tremendously effective. Maybe a starter would be to give some maintainers of already successful projects a salary, if they want. Impossible to game.

They indeed do "stuff like that" all the time. That's exactly my point.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You have 27 languages, 27 cultures, 27 political systems, 27 markets, 27 levels of development and infrastructure. If I look at most of my European sales they are in Germany, The Netherlands and Scandinavia. The UK was in that list until Brexit. I don't think you need to target all 27, at least not until you are well established.

And suddenly your 300m market is only 100m people

In many cases, you never really had a 300m market in the first place. The EU membership spans a wide range of cultures, languages, traditions, economics and politics. Many products or services won't be equally attractive to customers all over the EU, particularly once you take into account the rules that mean you can't necessarily price according to what a free market would pay either.
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