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The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

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Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in the Navy I carried a little memoranda pad in my left breast pocket. I’d take notes each day, at the beginning of each new day, I’d carry any necessary information from the previous day to the next page and then fold the previous page along the diagonal, alternating the folds right and left each day. The effects of pulling out a notepad and jotting notes are markedly different than pulling out a phone or…

I've noticed that early on; 15 years ago, I was keeping notes on a "feature phone with sliding keyboard". I was pulled by my manager for being disrespectful after the meeting; I showed him the notes and demonstrated that I was by far the most attention / had the best retention / was most involved in the meeting, but still... the message was - it looks unprofessional, stop it. Thing is: * My handwriting sucks (I liter…

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Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#412

I'm always super intrigued by the reMarkable 2, but I think it's because it paints an image of the type of person I think it'd be cool to be, someone who can just write down notes and draw stuff with a really cool, slim device. Someone who carries around moleskines and uses them, instead of just buying so many of them in different shapes and leaving them in a drawer packed to the brim with notebooks. The problem keep…

Might I recommend an Apple Newton? ;)

Small(ish), syncable (bit of a learning curve to do so, but it is possible), and even comes with a physical keyboard if you want to really type things out rather than just use a stylus.

In my experience its OCR software is on-par with the Remarkable, if not better.

Good times.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#413
post #268

I'm always super intrigued by the reMarkable 2, but I think it's because it paints an image of the type of person I think it'd be cool to be, someone who can just write down notes and draw stuff with a really cool, slim device. Someone who carries around moleskines and uses them, instead of just buying so many of them in different shapes and leaving them in a drawer packed to the brim with notebooks. The problem keep…

Put a stack of 3x4 index cards in you back pocket, and write thing down as needed. In the evening, (eg when you pull keys/wallet out of the pocket) review the cards briefly and toss the used once into trash unless you really need to keep one. This is a low-commitment device that still achieves half the benefits of really writing things down.

There should be card size rugged reMarkable mini to put in pocket and take notes anywhere.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#414

I'm always super intrigued by the reMarkable 2, but I think it's because it paints an image of the type of person I think it'd be cool to be, someone who can just write down notes and draw stuff with a really cool, slim device. Someone who carries around moleskines and uses them, instead of just buying so many of them in different shapes and leaving them in a drawer packed to the brim with notebooks. The problem keep…

Like you I'd wanted a remarkable but could never justify it. Then a friend told me about the handshake crypto that was given away to GitHub users back in 2019 https://handshake.org/claim/ and how it was worth real money now.

Anyway, I claimed the coins, transferred them into dollars (just before the recent crash) and bought a remarkable for "free".

Honestly, it's a nice tablet, but, I'm glad I got it for free ;)

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#415

I'm always super intrigued by the reMarkable 2, but I think it's because it paints an image of the type of person I think it'd be cool to be, someone who can just write down notes and draw stuff with a really cool, slim device. Someone who carries around moleskines and uses them, instead of just buying so many of them in different shapes and leaving them in a drawer packed to the brim with notebooks. The problem keep…

>hand writing or drawing.

A few weeks of practicing 10 minutes a day or so will give you good handwriting.

A few weeks of a basic drawing course with a small amount of practice will give you decent enough skills to get your ideas down on paper.

People naturally do the things they like to do. I actually enjoy the process of writing with fountain pens, calligraphy, taking notes, etc. Strangely, I also really enjoy the experience of typing.

Taking notes and drawing don't make me cool. Carrying a notebook and a fountain pen made people think I was kind of eccentric more than anything. Carrying an iPad Pro 12.9 with a stylus made people think I was a geek. No one was mean about it or anything, but it definitely doesn't make a person cool. Just be who you are and do the things you enjoy.

If you think you would enjoy writing/drawing, put a little bit of effort into it and you will have pretty good results.

As far as the e-ink tablets go, I'm hoping the large format ones become more affordable and more polished. I would love to have one but the value proposition vs an Ipad is terrible. Single-purpose devices can frequently be better than a more generalized device, but in the case of these E-ink tablets the few things they do (reading, writing, drawing) generally offer a worse experience than doing that same thing on an Ipad. The only upsides are battery life and the e-ink screen.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#416
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read PDFs (and highlight and annotate) on my RM2 daily. It's a _fantastic_ PDF reader, IMO. It's the ability to annotate that's killer for me. I mark things up extensively, writing notes in the margins, starring items, underlining, and writing on the RM2 screen is a paper-like writing experience. It's e-reader software is a bit meh, so I still read books (fiction, mostly) on my Kindle Paperwhite.

So you don't have issues with the lack of PDF reflow? I just want something that works for reading and doing math/cs while laying in bed.

Oh, I absolutely _don't_ want PDF reflow! The PDFs I read are formatted a specific way for a reason. 2-column, latex-generated academic papers, etc.

Reflow is one of the worst things to happen to digital publishing, IMO. I get it that it makes ebooks readable, but typesetting is an art, and one we haven't even come close to nailing in the digital realm.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#418
I picked up the Onyx BOOX Max Lumi, a 13.3" e-ink tablet and bookreader earlier this year. I'm mostly happy with it. I'm far happier with it than I have been with my earlier Android devices (10 years of phone and 6 of tablet use), though the BOOX is in fact an Android 10 device, though not fully Google-compliant. It also has 4x the onboard storage of the Remarkable2, at 64 GB rather than 16 GB (more below). That alone was the convincing factor for me.

The display is gorgeous. 1650x2200 pixels at 207 dpi 16 shade greyscale. It reads wonderfully in direct sunlight, and well under any interior lighting conditions with the "Frontlight" to assist. Unlike emissive displays, frontlight + increased room light increases readability.

The stock bookreader software ("Neoreader") is good at reading, less so at organising (more below). Well-processed books directly rendered from markup can generally be viewed landscape at 2-up, for a more booklike experience (ePubs of course as well). Even lower-quality scans of 3-column articles from before the age of computer typesetting are readable without having to zoom the page. (Most recently I've been going through the Whole Earth Catalog's back-editions --- the pasted-in layout, often with patterned or coloured overlays, is ... almost always ... readable. It's a good test of bad quality typography.)

I'd written a bit recently on the fact that tablets are for the most part not a viable device cateogory, with far too many design compromises. The notable exceptions being ebook readers, baby pacifiers, and watching videos. For any other task, a laptop (even a small and cheap one) is far more capable. See the following, most of the meat is in my subsequent comments: https://joindiaspora.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e...

My principle uses are as a book/document reader, accessing my Pocket archive (more below), and some Android use (Web, podcasts, Termux). I hadn't expected to use the note-taking feature at all, but that is actually surprisingly good and habit-forming.

The BOOX is, of course, a tablet, but it's one with a few interesting twists.

- Display: Pixels are cheap, paints are expensive, persistence costs nothing, viewability increases rather than decreases as ambient lighting increases, and colours are nonexistent. (There are colour e-ink devices, performance is middlin', price is not ... too outrageous, sizes tend to the smaller.) Contrast is lower than paper, though it's good. Video is possible, if far from optimal. Issues with colour-discrimination can be an issue in apps and websites. Multiple modes trading increased quality for faster refresh. Video can be viewed, though it's not pretty. Line-art and halftone rendering is excellent.

- Battery: Claim is a month of standbye, a week of normal use. I am not a normal user, my goal was to not have range-anxiety. I can go a day or two between charges, and charging is fast (1--2 hours to full), whilst using the device for much of the day. This is more than sufficient and exceeds expectations.

- Storage: My goal is to have a portable and well-organised library (more on the 2nd bit below). I have well over 64 GB in texts alone, and also use devices for podcasts. I've already chewed through most of the capacity of the BOOX (system and apps also require some space), and would prefer a 128--256 or larger storage option. The fact that Remarkable2 is limited to 16 GB given the pitifully low costs of storage, for a device principally aimed at reading, is ... inexplicable.

- WiFi: 2.4G & 5G (unsure what specs). Slightly less range than my earlier tablet, though still adequate and reliable.

- Bluetooth. Mostly for the optional $35 keyboard, though also capable of sharing audio to speakers.

- Touch: Works better than expected. Note-taking in particular is excellent. The display depth is slightly increased (due to various layers?), so drawing may be difficult, but for text notes and rough diagraming, it's actually pretty addictive.

- Audio: Two speakers and (counter to my initial belief) an onboard mic. More than sufficient for listening to podcasts.

- Camera: None.

- Security: A mixed bag. Device password is only available with Onyx's Cloud service, which is inexcusable. No device encryption. I treat the device as largely untrusted.

- Interface: Usable, with some kinks and personality. Occasional instances of Engrish / Chinglish.

- Android: On basis, this was a strike against the device, though given it's reasonably Google-Free, the Google App store does not work, and F-Droid offers a useful selection of much-better-behaved applications, a feature. Access to some Android settings (e.g., device UUID reset) aren't provided. The device is actually a rather better tablet than I'd hoped (which increases distractions).

- Stock apps: The bookreader, storage manager, a web browser (re-badged and e-ink optimised Chromium AFAICT), clock, calendar (with no alarms!), calculator, and a few other stock apps exist. Most are specifically designed for e-ink and benefit by this. Features are fairly spare.

- Note-taking: Surprisingly good. This wasn't a key interest, but the ability to simply write what I want to capture, as well as diagram and annotate freely, makes up for much of the keyboard lack.

- Apps: Supposedly the Google App Store can be enabled, though I've found this doesn't work. I consider this to be a feature. Instead I rely on F-Droid and APK Mirror to install Fennec Fox, EinkBro (a browser, more below), Pocket, Termux, a Feeder (RSS), VLC, Wikipedia, and a very small handful of other apps.

- EinkBro Browser: (Additional install, not stock.) This is a web browser specifically engineered for e-ink devices. It features full-screen immersive mode (no app or device menus), paginated navigation (fewer paints), a Reader Mode, print-to-PDF, a verticle-text mode (for Japanese text). It is lacking an Incognito mode, and some of the features are rough (adblock, JS, and cookie whitelists can be added, but not edited or individually removed). For pages which are painful in Fennec Fox, it's a very handy fallback option. I still principally use Fennec as a browser. As an exemplar of eink-aware UI/UX, it's excellent.

- Pocket: Installed via APK Mirror (the F-Droid version is woefully obsolete). All my standard frustrations exist, though at least it's available. See: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/5x2sfx/pocket_... (HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19763106) But at least it's there.

- Termux: The Linux-environment-on-Android utility lives up to its reputation of the one Android App That Does Not Completely And Specifically Suck. It also continues to be periodically garbage-collected by Android, though that's not Termux's fault. There's a black-on-white eink display style which suits the BOOX wonderfully, and "Speed Mode" display seems to work best on text. The Onyx hardware keyboard does NOT include an "esc" key, which is quite frustrating for this vim addict.

I do have some complaints.

Storage. I'd prefer 128 GB -- 512 GB available -- enough to store thousands of books and audio episodes, without any concern for running out of storage. It's less a factor of "what's sufficient" and more "why allow a few dollars in cost stand in the way of sufficient storage?" 512 GB microSD now costs about $50. I paid more than that for the cover for the device.

Root. I'd prefer a rootable device. AFAICT the BOOX is not.

The bookreader and storage utility don't facilitate organising and managing content. This seems to be a weak point of many ebook tools. In particular: - I'd like to be able to edit / add metadata to documents from within the document itself, based on the Dublin Core metadata + tags. I'm mostly be interested in title, author, publication, and date, though other fields also prove useful. Search should be metadata-aware. The storage utility should also provide for metadata managment. I'm interested in media / library management tools that integrate with tablets.

Android management tools are generally lacking. Onyx's rebranding of Android removes most of the configuration tools.

Instability. The device does crash and kill apps from time to time. That's probably on Android, but increases certain types of anxiety. Restarting every few days isn't a bad idea. No worse than any other Android device I've had. But I've rarely had printed books crash on me.

Keyboard: Please include "esc" on tablet keyboards.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#419

I'm always super intrigued by the reMarkable 2, but I think it's because it paints an image of the type of person I think it'd be cool to be, someone who can just write down notes and draw stuff with a really cool, slim device. Someone who carries around moleskines and uses them, instead of just buying so many of them in different shapes and leaving them in a drawer packed to the brim with notebooks. The problem keep…

I have put Working Copy (a git client with a half decent editor - ie it does not do autocorrection) on my phone and if the moment strikes I put a note into one or two books that I Promise To Publish Real Soon now.

was out jogging today and had a thought and popped it in. is in gthub right now so i think of it as safe.

But yes. I completely understand - i too want to be one of those people.

in fact watching this i thought there is a market for business pads - that look like your are taking notes and updating tickets not thumbing thorugh facebook in a meeting.

Slap a specialised JIRA client on this and I think you have a package winner.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#420
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-Mail and Python notebooks? I don't think they these are the primary use cases for a "digital paper" device. What you consider an "overengineered piece" of paper might be intentional. Maybe you don't need paper - some people do.

I think that as e-ink gets better and better refresh rates, that having it as a grayscale monitor for things like textbooks/markup and browsing the web will make sense. Having an e-ink tablet to browse HN, check email and read the morning paper sounds pretty nice. I used to get the NYTimes delivered to my Kindle each morning.

Forget grayscale, E-ink is going color. Early color devices are on the market already. And there are displays in the works that are fast enough to render video.

I'm really looking forward to the future of e-ink displays.

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