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Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

reuters.com

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Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#411

Post by thebean11 »

NationalPark wrote: post #200
thebean11 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how can you possibly make the claim that BTC was diluted vs the market cap of other coins being net new value?

The argument is that crypto has little to no intrinsic value and the price is being moved by speculation. In that case, the value comes from how many other speculators are willing to speculate in your currency - more options means fewer dollars buying bitcoin. The fact that pretty much every crypto of non-trivial float trades in lock step with BTC definitely supports the "no intrinsic value" theory.

Sounds like two separate arguments, I don't really see the through line. The value of BTC comes from the mining security, and you cannot mine multiple chains at once with the same hardware.

> The fact that pretty much every crypto of non-trivial float trades in lock step with BTC definitely supports the "no intrinsic value" theory.

They are highly correlated but certainly not lock step, see the 1 month ETH/BTC chart. Assets on the stock market are also highly correlated to each other, so I don't quite follow.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#412

Post by matheusmoreira »

almost_usual wrote: post #383
matheusmoreira wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even 1% of the world's energy consumption. If you want to stop wasting tremendous amounts of energy, all you have to do is stop trading with China.

All you have to do is end global trade and possibly spark WW3. Ok.

Actually changing the world for the better is hard, isn't it? Much easier to zero in on bitcoin's inconsequential energy usage I guess.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#413

Post by onemoresoop »

inter_netuser wrote: post #127
coldcode wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at least gold has some inherent value, crypto is just math that is worth whatever the buyers/sellers think it should be. Stock in a company that stays in business will never go to zero as the company always has some value due to having revenue, but crypto has no real world floor (though unlikely to actually get to zero since someone will always buy).

Gold's monetary premium dwarfs its industrial value. Something like 90%+ is purely monetary usage.

And that consists of taking gold out of the ground and putting it back under the ground - in vaults and adding an extra dash on paper. That's a lot of energy expenditure with destruction of the environment as well (cyanide is still used in gold mining).

What we need is a more efficient digital currency and stores of value. Gold is not the answer either.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#414

Post by Qub3d »

Ekaros wrote: post #370
woeirua wrote: post #184

Everyone should take some time now to learn about Tether, the high likelihood that it is in fact a Ponzi scheme, and that it poses a big systemic risk to the crypto exchanges and therefore the markets themselves [1]. People have been sounding the alarm on Tether for a long time now, but we’re finally getting some hard evidence now to back the allegations [2]. Don’t say you weren’t warned. [1] https://mobile.twitter.c…

Is tether even a Ponzi scheme? My understanding is that returns are 0. And it's "pegged" to dollar, so you can't even make any money by buying it... Ponzi scheme would mean that some investors were getting returns...

Its a fraud in that the money/gold/intrinsic fiat that is supposed to be backing it has not been credibly proven to exist, at least at a value matching the current amount of USDT in supply.

---

Let's say I decide to make NerdBucks. I offer to sell you n NerdBucks for n dollars, 1-to-1, and tell you I will always buy those NerdBucks back at the same price. This is how NerdBucks get "pegged" to a dollar -- if someone will always buy the currency for a given rate, it will then always be worth at least that much.

Now, you might say, "Okay, what's from stopping you from selling a billion NerdBucks, and when people try to sell them back to you, you just refuse?" Well, normally nothing (outside of litigation, but that is a rabbit hole I'm not going to talk about here). In theory, though, I could have a bank account that I publish the amount of inside it, to show you I am prepared to buy every single NerdBuck back in a worst-case scenario.

---

Going back to Tether: The issuing body of Tether has suggested they are holding reserves of USD equivalent to USDT in circulation. If you look at some of the other articles linked in this thread [0] you can find deep-dives that suggest they are lying, and in fact have been using USDT as a way to print money.

They are relying on the hope that more people will buy USDT than come calling to cash in. That is fundamentally the same hope that a Ponzi scheme relies on.

[0]:https://medium.com/@bitfinexed/bitfinex-and-tether-is-unaudi...

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#415

Post by kwere »

paulpauper wrote: post #169
tadzik_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different If $SPY was 40% up since last month, would that be normal? ETH is still currently higher than its value from April 19th. Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal.

In terms of risk-adjusted returns, Bitcoin worse than index funds. You can get smoother returns using 3x ETFs like TQQQ and TECL compared to bitcoin and about the same absolute returns. Nasdaq 100 has much better sharpe ratio compared to bitcoin. Same for FAAMG portfolio

leveraged etf arent an investiment veihicle

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#416

Post by fraud »

rawtxapp wrote: post #297

Even though I'm very bullish on crypto longterm and even though this crash caused me large loses on paper, I'm happy about it. I think a lot of people got very greedy and way overleveraged themselves which is not sustainable in the long-term. For example, almost 9B$ worth of crypto got liquidated in the last 24hr, that's insane. People chasing quick money get burned. 1: https://www.bybt.com/LiquidationData

What makes you bullish about crypto and what need do you see it fulfilling long term?

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#417

Post by Ologn »

pilingual wrote: post #233
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Thank you for the disinterested take! It's refreshing to see this as a top comment when so often I see "Crypto makes me sick" which offers zero information and doesn't belong on HN. A few points to the repetitive comments I keep seeing: 1. Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme. Various cryptocurrencies operate in such a manner, but Bitcoin and Ethereum have value propositions: settlement and programmable money respectively.…

> A lot of smart people are invested in crypto: a16z, USV, Paradigm. These aren't greedy VCs -- it's their job to make returns for institutional investors who are often pension funds or charitable endowments, so if it a "Ponzi" then they are fools.

(I wanted to say back in 1999) - a lot of smart people are invested in dot-com startups: Kleiner Perkins, Sequoia, Hummer Winblad. These aren't greedy VCs -- it's their job to make returns for institutional investors who are often pension funds or charitable endowments, so if it a "Ponzi" then they are fools. I'm sure Hummer Winblad's investment in Pets.com will work out great.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#418

Post by echelon »

thebean11 wrote: post #185
paulpauper wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

alt coins. BTC dominace used to be 90%+. now way lower . BTC holders get no royalties from blockchain being copied

how can you possibly make the claim that BTC was diluted vs the market cap of other coins being net new value?

Opportunity cost and choice.

Dogecoin means more to me than BTC. Good luck convincing me, or those that share my belief, otherwise

If I put $500 into either, it'd be Doge.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#419

Post by devmunchies »

kllrnohj wrote: post #26
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

at ~$2,700 (current), ETH is where it was on april 30th, which was only 19 days ago.

Would you consider being reduced to last month's price a crash?

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#420

Post by MomoXenosaga »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #206
taylodl wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal. If that's true then cryptocurrency is pretty much worthless to use as currency. A desired property of currency is to not have wild fluctuations in value on a weekly or monthly bases.

Exactly. Its not so much a currency as a tulip bulb, or a ponzi scheme, or something new that has the worst features of all those.

As a Dutch person I can attest tulips have an actual purpose. And worth- the flower business is worth billions every year.
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