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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#411

Post by inspector-g »

lostgame wrote: post #376
gonehome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

I'm not sure why people keep using the 30% number. For businesses that make less than $1mil a year (I am assuming that's most of us who are hobbyist or indie developers here), you literally have to push a button to enable the small business program (it was that easy for me) to reduce it to 15%. It has been this way since November, and it seems like either nobody noticed, or they seem to still enjoy quoting the 30% nu…

> If a participating developer surpasses the $1 million threshold, the standard commission rate will apply for the remainder of the year.

And for the entirety of the following year.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#412

Post by shawnz »

leadingthenet wrote: post #399
edrxty wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have several in fact, including the PinePhone which I quite like but isn't really ready for daily use. The issue is Apple is developing a monopoly on high end hardware and there are fewer reasonable options by the day.

And there’s a reason for that. You’re making the mistake of thinking Apple’s special sauce is the hardware. It’s not. It’s the experience.

I don't think they were making any kind of claim about Apple's "special sauce", only that Apple has a monopoly on high-end hardware, which is true.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#413

Post by Humdeee »

gonehome wrote: post #403
Humdeee wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the comment that lost me. I'm sorry, how should more of the pie go to Spotify here using that argument? Apple 'made their money' on the hardware, therefore Spotify is entitled to a larger ratio on the software? Is that the correct interpretation? Edit: I'll take your downvote as being it was the correct interpretation. It's okay, I didn't expect a reply.

Assuming you’re asking in good faith - Apple sells the hardware, they don’t make the software of other company’s apps. They force companies to ship through their store, I think that is okay because it enables them to enforce quality standards for users. I think it’s wrong for them to force this distribution model and then take a cut from every software company. In the Spotify case Apple forces them to pay a tax and t…

This is already way off topic to my post I'm wondering if I'm the right person you replied to. Let's stay focused on this, because I agree with most of your points in this thread.

Apple makes money off the sale of their iPhone from the user, with Spotify's existence here being completely irrelevant. Should Spotify be granted increased monetary entitlement to their app creation because of this physical material sale between Apple and the user?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#414

Post by lofi_lory »

Elidrake24 wrote: post #42
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

That's not the argument tho.

You liking Apple's ecosystem doesn't mean they aren't anticompetitive.

And really your point is kind of... weird. It's not like you don't have to go out of your way to get third-party apps on your Android phone. And you would lose nothing, if Apple did the same, maybe even more buried in hidden settings and behind disclaimers and warnings. Reads like the typical retrospective justification of any limitation Apple features.

"A single USB-C port? Yeah, I love it! Keeps you focused and mindful about peripheral devices!"

Every god damn time. Beyond bizarre.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#415

Post by BiteCode_dev »

tgragnato wrote: post #398
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My GF has no idea how to administrate her phone, she has an android, and certainly doesn't side load apps, install them from websites or use an alternative app store. She wouldn't know how to do those things, so this point seems kinda moot.

Only someone who never tried to compile AOSP can write seriously that "Android is open source". That the platforms are open source is a moot point too.

I don't talk about open source anywhere in my comment.

I'm simply noting that those "dangerous features" are, practically, only accessible to the people that are tech saavy enough to understand the risks.

So the "it's to protect the innocent" argument doesn't seem to hold well.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#416

Post by gonehome »

aabbcc1241 wrote: post #410
gonehome wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t work. It’s not content filtering that I care about, it’s the ability for Apple to enforce standards around usability and features that are better for their users. Without control of the store they lose that leverage. App devs will just ship outside of it and include all the tracking they want. It’ll also block Apple from being able to require things like Apple ID or Apple Pay support which provide direct…

You as a user has absolute right to choose whatever app that fulfill your own standards around usability and features, w/wo any app stores.

When incentives are not aligned it's effectively moloch [0].

The choice I want won't exist in that world and I don't have the leverage to require it to exist.

Apple does and that's why I choose their products.

[0]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#417

Post by amelius »

Redoubts wrote: post #379
amelius wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people prefer the safety of Disney World. Others like to go base jumping from some mountain in the Alps. Shouldn't both be possible? Or do we want a Mickey Mouse in the Alps telling us to go back for our own safety?

Yeah, but that’s what Android is for. I have absolutely no faith that developers won’t pick the easiest, cheapest, least restrictive distribution channel available. And I have every inclination they will sacrifice every user desire for privacy and integrity to get there.

Yet I have no such problems on Linux.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#418

Post by zepto »

amelius wrote: post #417
Redoubts wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but that’s what Android is for. I have absolutely no faith that developers won’t pick the easiest, cheapest, least restrictive distribution channel available. And I have every inclination they will sacrifice every user desire for privacy and integrity to get there.

Yet I have no such problems on Linux.

Do you actually think that’s a reasonable comparison? GNU Linux is not a consumer operating system used by billions of people on their phones.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#419

Post by gonehome »

Humdeee wrote: post #413
gonehome wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you’re asking in good faith - Apple sells the hardware, they don’t make the software of other company’s apps. They force companies to ship through their store, I think that is okay because it enables them to enforce quality standards for users. I think it’s wrong for them to force this distribution model and then take a cut from every software company. In the Spotify case Apple forces them to pay a tax and t…

This is already way off topic to my post I'm wondering if I'm the right person you replied to. Let's stay focused on this, because I agree with most of your points in this thread. Apple makes money off the sale of their iPhone from the user, with Spotify's existence here being completely irrelevant. Should Spotify be granted increased monetary entitlement to their app creation because of this physical material sale b…

I'd argue your question is a warped framing that confuses the issue in an attempt to be leading.

iPhone sale to user is irrelevant.

Apple forces distribution via their store and they force companies to pay a cut.

I think this is bad, but at least it's across all people that participate in the store.

Then Apple itself enters the market via the store selling the same product at the same price, but without the tax.

That's cheating. It has nothing to do with the 'physical material sale' - it has to do with requiring store distribution and taking a cut of competitors margins, but then entering yourself. It's not Spotify 'getting more of the pie' it's Spotify not having to pay an anti-competitive tax to the platform controller.

They can either allow distribution outside of the store (which I would not want) or they can remove the tax on apps that they directly compete with.

I'd prefer they remove the cut entirely and replace it with some low yearly fee for distribution.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#420

Post by tgragnato »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #415
tgragnato wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only someone who never tried to compile AOSP can write seriously that "Android is open source". That the platforms are open source is a moot point too.

I don't talk about open source anywhere in my comment. I'm simply noting that those "dangerous features" are, practically, only accessible to the people that are tech saavy enough to understand the risks. So the "it's to protect the innocent" argument doesn't seem to hold well.

I agree with you.

My sentence thinks over the top comment and the one you are replying to, both highlight irrelevant factual positions.

Both are interesting details for techies, but in the real world they have no practical value.

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