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Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#411

Post by wffurr »

torgian wrote: post #362

To me, after reading the article, it seems like Google saw all these offices they have and realized all the money would go to waste if people don’t use them. And then there’s the middle manager aspect. Google made these offices with the idea to make people feel like the office is “home”. Snacks, food, bring your dog, etc all screams “why go home when you have everything here?” The cynic in me believes that is exactly…

There were reasons they invested heavily in offices in the first place; there’s a strong belief (perhaps justified, I couldn’t say) that innovation is more likely to happen with everyone in the office and partaking of amenities in common spaces were serendipitous conversations occur that spark the next billion dollar project.

I’ve heard this theory as maximizing the odds of such a lucky conversation. Increasing the innovation “surface area” by having more people having more chance encounters.

There’s probably other reasons to it too, but there’s also reason to believe that same type of innovation doesn’t happen as readily online.

It’s the same theory why industries tend to cluster in certain areas; not just access to a pool of ready-trained employees but also a thriving innovation scene due to the proximity of all those experienced, motivated people.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#413

Post by dudul »

beforeolives wrote: post #305
me_me_me wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hybrid model, let your workers decide how they work as long they deliver.

In a hybrid model the people who choose to be remote are damaging their own impact and career development. That's a tradeoff they're free to make if they want but it's the reason why I think hybrid models won't last for too long.

I see this claim made very often on HN. Is there any data to back it up?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#414

Post by wffurr »

swiley wrote: post #367

So: You must live somewhere with the highest cost of living. Working on software that intentionally isolates and manipulates people And now you don't even get to work from your overpriced home. I'm sure there won't be a retention problem,

That’s a pretty uncharitable way of describing all of Google’s software. There’s a lot more to Google than just the YouTube ranking algorithm, if that’s what you’re referring to.

It’s also not in the least different from pre-pandemic, and there wasn’t much of a retention problem then, either, as far as I know.

There’s also plenty of offices in places that don’t have the very highest cost of living, and Google committed to expanding those as well.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#415

Post by o-__-o »

dgellow wrote: post #368
lentil_soup wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot recommend a co-working space enough. My life improved so much since working from a co-working. I looked for a place that shared my work/life style and I've made friends, we share lunch, we've gone on trips, we usually share a friday drink, etc. And since everyone works on different things and/or companies it's quite interesting as well to get some other input that's not just work colleagues. I also looked fo…

Reading this thread makes me realize that not everybody is currently in a lockdown. Co-working spaces where I am are closed (due to the virus) since ~October and won't reopen before a while :(

Coffee shop patios are open here. Lots of folks working without masks there (socially distanced of course). Indoor spaces are still limited. I was going to go work at a coffee shop today but it’s a bit too cold

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#416

Post by wayoutthere »

gfxgirl wrote: post #383
bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

> Most people feel alone because they lack the social skills to make friends outside work, or just lack the initiative I'm not sure that's how I'd put it but the alone-ness is a real problem for many people but I don't see how some new startup is going to solve that problem.

I think many of us have been so conditioned by social media, dating apps and group chats that we’ve forgotten how to make friends. Meeting new people was super tough during covid, but we’re not going back to the same world.

I’ve been putting real effort into this: I dumped social media years ago, so now I just message someone individually if I want to talk to them. I’ve really focused on 1-on-1 friendships versus “group friends”. I don’t have the same friends as all my friends, and that’s ok (and makes for more interesting parties).

The problem is that this type of engagement detracts from your available attention share, so social media actively discourages it. Instead they want you to be a lonely voice shouting into the void hoping someone will notice you. That’s not a great life.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#417

Post by o-__-o »

intricatedetail wrote: post #380
bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

Worst thing is that my partner thinks sitting by a computer is not work and she feels entitled to interrupt any time she pleases. I didn't know that side when I worked in office. The first few months were difficult and she only came to terms with that when I started packing my things and said I will be moving out. I learned that this is probably wrong relationship but it is hard to throw away those years, but I can't…

1 put a lock on your door, refuse to open it

2 a light outside the door or a sock on the door let’s people know you cannot be disturbed

3 don’t forget to open the door when you can legitimately be disturbed

4 calmly and clearly state that you are at work while door is locked/light is on/sock is on the door. Compare to partner being at work/school and you being unable to barge in

5 meditate because this won’t be resolved over night

Like you it took threatening to leave (renting an office space and working from there. She was not fond of throwing out $1200/mo) for my wife to take it seriously. I have been working remotely for almost a decade now but over the last 3 years my wife stopped taking it seriously. The pandemic seems to have driven the fact home (esp when our little one would disturb her while she was working)

You must realize working remotely is not common and with any new lifestyle change there will be adaption periods. Some people longer than others. The ultimatum usually gets their attention but not always the way you would like (my wife refuses to enter the office now, which is also not what I want but baby steps)

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#418

Post by varispeed »

snakeboy wrote: post #388
varispeed wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be friendly without having to socialise. Not sure why those things would have to go together? Doing socials after work is such a waste of time - sure it may be fun, but this way you are using up time that otherwise you could use to maintain friendships outside of work. Socialising at work is when you develop unconscious and conscious biases and it is a breeding ground for a toxic atmosphere and disruption of…

Isn't this also how a lot of friendships start? People finding themselves in a similar place/situation/habit/interests. So to me it seems a bit natural that workplace friendships would naturally develop. It's healthier to make an effort to have friendships outside of work as well, of course. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I don't see how "toxic atmosphere and disruption of team dynamics" would result from these casual fr…

Within time cliques form and some people may be coming to those events out of fear they'll be missing out instead of to have fun and some people may just not be coming and will be viewed by other team members as weirdos. From there it is natural to side with something you know and feel affection to and you may be unconsciously treating people who don't socialise with you worse than the others. Other things that may happen, often when also alcohol is involved, people may say things from their private lives that then other people may use against them or when you start talking about politics and it turns out some people have completely opposite views to yours. This is not helpful in any way.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#419

Post by biztos »

lentil_soup wrote: post #364
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or just lack the initiative, knowledge and internal motivation to work without external pressure and supervision I will humbly raise my hand and admit to this. As someone who has so far really enjoyed the lifestyle benefits of WFH but has struggled with this, what advice/tips/strategies/recommendations can you or other senior remote engineers provide on how to improve this specific aspect?

I cannot recommend a co-working space enough. My life improved so much since working from a co-working. I looked for a place that shared my work/life style and I've made friends, we share lunch, we've gone on trips, we usually share a friday drink, etc. And since everyone works on different things and/or companies it's quite interesting as well to get some other input that's not just work colleagues. I also looked fo…

One potentially tricky thing is that larger companies may have rules against co-working.

My last BigCo employer had a lot of WFH (as exceptions and due to acquisitions or site closures, the overall policy was butts in seats, but still). If you actually read the security policies, you saw lots of things that would make co-working de facto a fireable offense.

But I doubt it was ever enforced, and I bet a lot of people did it. I had a proper home office instead.

It’s best to know what the co-working rules are at your employer.

O/T: Apple autocorrect thinks “coworking” should be “cowering” which is probably a worst-case version of my point...

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