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Early-Retirement Update

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Re: Early-Retirement Update

#411
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an engineer, I see high capital gain from my labor by joining "blow-out" startups, as described by some article written by Wealthfront. Working for a blowing-out startup so far is the best choice for an engineer like me, who is not good at navigating dynamics of a large company nor good at investing nor interested in real estate as many fellow engineers are in Silicon Valley. I personally enjoy the following perks…

Working hard is not what engineers enjoy. Engineers enjoy building architectures to minimize human effort while still producing maximal results. I try to solve problems as efficiently as possible to minimize the amount of work I have to do and minimize the amount of effort some future maintainer will have to do. This will allow a company to reach unlimited economies of scale as the limit of the amount of work require…

> Working hard is not what engineers enjoy.

There are different type of engineers. I think people will almost always miss the mark when they state "engineers enjoy xyz" even when it's something like "engineers enjoy problem solving". I actually enjoy fantasizing and being the idea guy, but I was too lazy to find a programmer so I taught it to myself instead. But I still enjoy being the idea guy much more than being a programmer. I like programming (and at times love to dive deep, deeper than a lot of web devs anyways), but I love being the idea guy.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#412
post #285

Despite some in this thread decrying the author, judging him on his life choices, etc. I feel the main culprit in this case is still the healthcare issue. The problem in the US is that proper healthcare is tied to a job. If the author had proper healthcare (say offered by the Government), he may still be in retirement. For our European counterparts, ask yourself this. Would 900k euro in savings be enough for retireme…

For a single person, yes. 900K * 0.03 = 27K

My strategy (NL) would be: buy a house/apartment for around 300K to 400K to live in (to combat rent inflation). Use the other 500K * 0.03 = 15K to live from.

For me personally:

- food is 100 euro's (buy things in bulk, buy cheap and micronutrient dense veggies like spinach, don't buy meat, buy frozen fish, etc.)

- utilities is 300 euro's (water + electricity + heat + internet + phone)

- health insurrance is 150 euro's

- disposable income is (15K / 12) - 550 = 1250 - 550 = 700 euro's. Property taxes still need to be paid, entertainment and transportation.

I may or may not have forgotten a few things, if it's still too little, then up the withdrawal rate to 4% instead of 3% and buy the 300K house/apartment.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#413
post #293
post #249

One thing that came to mind while reading was how sensitive the "financial independence" path was to unexpected changes in life. If ones model financial independence is so fragile that "comfort spending" is not included in the analysis, then I am not quite sure one can call that strategy financial independence.

Right. I think a lot of people model their future financial needs on their current situation and current level of expenses, with moderate yearly increases, and that just isn't realistic. Even people who do take it into account don't go far enough IMO. Then again, there are some medical diagnoses that will bankrupt you (in the US) even if you're employed and have good insurance, so I think there are some things you ca…

IMO marriage has some similarities with a startup. This is one of them.

Disclaimer: I've never been married. I might, later in life.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#414

And under-looked approach to retirement that I'm personally targeting is reducing working hours and then moving to contracting. Late 30s/early 40s: 4 days a week with Fridays or Mondays off. Late 40s through 50s: contracting with increasing time off between contracts. E.g., 6 on 6 off, 3 on 9 off, 1 on 11 off, etc.

IMO this comment is underappreciated, I wish I could upvote it more. I favorite-ed it at least :)

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#415
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aging is as big problem or probably even bigger, than having a job. I'm sure your grandmother wouldn't just watch TV if she looked and felt like a 20 year old girl. She would probably go party, hang out, get drunk, travel and socialize all the time. Chronic illnesses at any age suck as much as having aging as a chronic illness.

> go party, hang out, get drunk, travel and socialize all the time This is the 20-something version of being idle. Minus the travel, which isn't a given. Being 20 doesn't mean you want to do something productive or meaningful with your life. There's plenty 20 yo that party, socialise, get drunk and never amount to anything. The reason it's just a phase is that it's not all trust fund kids and most need money (a job)…

If a baby would come out it, that is just as productive as a job (though more and more people do abortion nowdays).

I don't see why working/producing is anymore meaningful than partying / socializing. I think people can find meaning in their life in different ways.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a class of jobs for retirees just working for health care and socialization.

So much this. Everyone gets old. How can we not want a society that would take care of them, including some form of worthwhile employment? It is an inherently selfish setup as one day you too will be old. Edit: trying to clarify my thoughts/point.

NHK US is filled with shows of retirees still doing their old jobs as hobbies. Several episodes involve repairing and running trains/tracks/stations on weekends for tourists.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#417

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

My FIRE goal is to simply be at a point where my job is optional. I'm no longer sure I want to retire early, but I like the option and flexibility that FIRE gives (and possibly reducing to part-time if it works out that way).

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. What you are saying is in direct contradiction with what he says in the article: > I encouraged her to explore her own life and find activities and goals that would help her feel better. I suggested therapy and offered to go with her. I was clear that if she wanted to go back to work I was eager…

Yea it sounds like he just didn't really beta test his FI ideas with his wife before launching, and then found out later that they have an irreconcilably different view of what life should be all about. She wanted to keep up with mythical Joneses and he didn't. Things were fine while their interests were aligned (accumulating wealth), but went south when the appearance of "falling behind" started in. I don't think an…

"She wanted to keep up with mythical Joneses and he didn't."

And you are making the same assumptions the author did. Isn't there any other reason for her to realize she's unhappy?

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's important to separate out the moral and psychological components here. I agree with you that if your bills are paid and you're harming no one, then you have no moral obligation to do anything more than sit on your butt and play videogames. It's your life. At the same time, humans are a social species. We have evolved brains and intrinsic motivation reward systems that only give us the real deep kinds of…

oddly, I somewhat agree with your position but in a reversed way. > There are of course outliers who can spend indefinite days just binge-watching TV happy as a clam. But most of us are wired like border collies. If we don't have a herd to take care of some real reason to get out of bed in the morning, we go crazy. I don't think these are outliers, I think these are a surprising majority. It's the classic bread and c…

> I don't think these are outliers, I think these are a surprising majority. It's the classic bread and circuses or Soma concept: as long as people are fed a steady supply of moderate entertainment and material enjoyment, they are content to idle.

This is a typical cynical take, but not borne out by reality at all. Yes, people enjoy leisure, but look at how they really live and you'll observe that they enjoy it in the context of a larger meaningful framework. While there are many bullshit jobs, most people still work surprisingly hard at them in large part because they have at least some coworkers they care about and want to support. Even the most jaded employee does so to earn a paycheck that most use to take care of their families and loved ones.

Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2mS3uDqQL4

You're right that given the opportunity, many people will just idle and consume media. But if you notice, most of them aren't actually enjoying it much. It's a way to survive, but not to thrive.

> And I would go further and say that you somewhat contradict your earlier position, which to me came across as being interested in solving problems and improving the world, not just your family/tribe.

I said "perceived tribe", which for some includes the entire world.

> it's unclear if you look down on anything

Again, I'm making no moral claims. I'm not looking up or down at anyone. I'm just saying that if you observe humans as a species it is clear that most of them need meaningful social connections and effortful tasks that support those connections in order to thrive.

Imagine you were an alien species building a human zoo. If you gave each person their own cell with unlimited videogames and movies, they would wither and die. Give them community and something meaningful to struggle for to benefit that community and they won't even know they're in a zoo.

> so you may be overlooking the many others who don't need social interaction or external reward/response to find meaning and fulfillment.

I am fairly introverted and as a software engineer, I obviously know lots and lots of other introverts. I many think the emotional experience of introverts in today's society is "I want more solitude". But that doesn't mean their optimal state is hermitage. (True hermits are vanishingly rare in the human species, less common than many severe mental illnesses.) That emotional response needs to be understood in the context of their lives.

Everyone needs solitude to process their experiences, autonomous time to feel that they are the agents of their life, and time away from the draining experience of being surrounded by people we think of as "others" and need to raise some level of defenses of wear masks around.

If you live in an urban area as a lowly employee of a giant corporation and spend all your down time consuming media instead of actually just sitting with your thoughts, then you get little of those. But that doesn't mean most people want an unbounded quantity of solitude anymore that wearing a cast for the rest of your life is somehow healthier than taking it off once the bone has knitted.

What we need is balance, and while everyone has a different prefered quantity of solitude, there are very very few whose ideal is "no social interaction at all".

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#420
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many people learned last year, it's easy to gloss over the parts of someone you don't like when you're both actively working towards a goal. When you start spending too much time together, it's easy to have the relationship die from a thousand cuts.

I would add "...if you weren't a good match in the first place". Your statement kind of tries to make itself universal. I absolutely will never subscribe to the BS notion of "couples love each other more when they don't spend much time together". I'm with my wife for 7 years now and I already worked remotely by the time we met. Our relationship is actually getting better with time. So what you say mostly applies to p…

I said it was an easy thing to have happen, not that it would happen. I'd argue that you took my statement in bad faith, looking for a flaw in it, and generalized more aggressively than I did.
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